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On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, And Rosta wrote: > John: > > And Rosta scripsit: > > > > > 4. Named Collective. The Collective is identified by name > > > (cmene). Plus optional noi- and voi-statements (of cardinality > > > and/or Superset). > > > > Is this like "The Smiths", the rock group whose members are not named > > "Smith", or is this like "the Smiths", a family all of whom are named > > "Smith"? I.e. I don't know what "identified by name" means. > > It is like the rock group. The plural morpheme in the example is a > distractor. "Fleetwood Mac" would also be an example of (4), as would > "John Cowan". > > The proposals treat individuals as singleton collectives. Things don't > have to be done thus, but doing them that way leads to a more minimal > inventory of primitives. The attribute that distinguishes collectives from pluralities is that a collective has at least one interesting emergent property, which the speaker is considering. The null property of belonging to a plurality is unhelpful and should not be considered. (Flames piped to /dev/grice.) I mean instead something like the ability to carry a piano. As Nick as alluded, de-emphasis of this point is what has seduced so many otherwise virtuous lojbanists into using mass gadri simply for plurals. Nick, please think about adding this point to your wiki exposition. -- The Pentagon group believed it had a visionary strategy that would transform Iraq into an ally of Israel, remove a potential threat to the Persian Gulf oil trade and encircle Iran with U.S. friends and allies...