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xod: > On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, And Rosta wrote: > > > John: > > > And Rosta scripsit: > > > > > > > 4. Named Collective. The Collective is identified by name > > > > (cmene). Plus optional noi- and voi-statements (of cardinality > > > > and/or Superset). > > > > > > Is this like "The Smiths", the rock group whose members are not named > > > "Smith", or is this like "the Smiths", a family all of whom are named > > > "Smith"? I.e. I don't know what "identified by name" means. > > > > It is like the rock group. The plural morpheme in the example is a > > distractor. "Fleetwood Mac" would also be an example of (4), as would > > "John Cowan". > > > > The proposals treat individuals as singleton collectives. Things don't > > have to be done thus, but doing them that way leads to a more minimal > > inventory of primitives. > > The attribute that distinguishes collectives from pluralities is that a > collective has at least one interesting emergent property, which the > speaker is considering. The null property of belonging to a plurality is > unhelpful and should not be considered. (Flames piped to /dev/grice.) I > mean instead something like the ability to carry a piano. What you call a 'plurality' -- which is a misleading term, since I am talking about groups of ONE OR MORE individuals -- becomes what you call a 'collective' as soon as you predicate something of it. E.g. as soon as you say the plurality carries the piano, lo & behold it has acquired the emergent property (piano carrying) that renders it a 'collective'. However, if you prefer, replace my use of 'Collective' by 'Group' or 'N-some', or whatever term you prefer. --And.