[YG Conlang Archives] > [engelang group] > messages [Date Index] [Thread Index] >


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next]

Re: [engelang] intensions & extensions (Xorban)



On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 12:53 AM, Mike S. <maikxlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here's another way of looking at it without screwing with the restriction.
> Let's say that "sm-" had two places and meant "x1 is an entity in world x2".

I wouldn't want to do that, because then "sm-" would no longer be
fully tautological. It would start to look a lot like "zst-".

A predicate like "x1 is an entity in world x2" is meant to be
evaluated in a world containing many different worlds, and I'm not
sure it's a good idea to mix this meta-level with the predicates. (I
see you later dismissed the -kV version of smV anyway.)

> When x2 is elided then we get the one-place "sm-" meaning "x1 is an entity
> [in some world]" that we already have & use.  Then we can say for every
> predicate e.g. xkre with an "extensional" argument, there is another
> predicate e.g. xkr`e without the extensionality such that
>
> ha xkre <=> jana smeka xkr`e
> "if E exists in world A then E is a black".

(New version:
ha xkre <=> jana ha sme ha xkr`e)

> sa sma ha re mlte xkre
> sa sma re mlte ha xkre
> "There is some A such that for all E, if E is a cat then if E exists in
> world A then E is a black."
> Or simply, "In world A, every cat is black."

Is that meant to be "It could be the case that all cats are black"? Is
it different from "sa sma fa re mlte xkre"? (which I would translate
as "in some cases, all cats are black" or "sometimes, all cats are
black").

> The exact h-transformation is lexically determined, but predictable from
> the meaning.  So (again ignoring x1 which *is* extensional) intensional
> places just ignore the "ha":
>
> ha pxro'eke <=> pxro'eke
>
> sa sma ha re mlte pxro'eke
> sa sma re mlte ha pxro'eke
> "There is some A such that for all E, if E is a cat then E is depicted."

What would that be (approximately) in everyday English? "There could
be pictures of every cat"?

How would you distinguish:

"There's some world in which every cat (of that world) is depicted"
"There's some world in which every cat (of this world) is depicted"

ca ma'a xrxe