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Jorge Llamb�as, On 15/09/2012 20:38:
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 4:24 PM, And Rosta<and.rosta@hidden.email> wrote:Yes. I know you and Mike are asking whether a tiger in a film is a tiger, but I on the other hand am arguing for having one device for saying it is a tiger in the same world as the spectator (which doesn't rule out it being imaginary, if the world contains imaginary tigers) and another device for saying it is a tiger but not necessarily in the same world as the spectatorThis second device seems more like d- than like f- though, since it can apply to anything, not only situations/states-of-affairs.
I'm thinking that the "(In the clouds) she saw there to be a tiger" is "la fa sa sma tgra vsko'ika" (or ha rather than fa, if fa is the same-world one), and "(In the clouds) she saw there to be a tiger" is equivalent to "(In the clouds) she saw a tiger". Likewise "(In the clouds) she saw a tiger approaching" is "la fa sa klma tgra vsko'ika". The same-world version is "la ha sa klma tgra vsko'ika".
As for "she was talking to who she thought was John" I can't get that reading for "She was talking to John" (except in Free Indirect Style, where the narrator is describing the world as the subject perceives it to be).How about "she was talking to God" (said by someone who doesn't believe in God) or "she was talking to her dead husband" (said by someone who doesn't believe in spirits)?
That's not really "She was talking to someone she thought was God", though. She's not talking to anybody. Or, if the x2 of "talk to" is merely who the speaker is intending to address, who the speaker intends to direct the speech towards, then we can say that God and her dead husband are in the same world and she's talking to them. But this sense of "talk to" would also allow a la fa x2, "She was talking to a future greatgrandchild of hers", where the greatgrandchild exists only the world of her intention. Another reading of "She was talking to God" is "She is doing something that she believes is talking to God": la da sma li smi lu fu fi le [god]e tvlake jnvaku gsnaki ca'aka ma ndi