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Jorge Llamb�as, On 14/09/2012 22:54:
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 8:24 AM, And Rosta<and.rosta@hidden.email> wrote:It doesn't really satisfy the same world/not-necessarily-same world contrast, tho; the difference, with "X see Y", between "There's Y, and Y acts as visual stimulus on X, causing X to form a percept of Y" and "X as a result of visual stimulus perceives Y to obtain". You could force the first interpretation by "la ftca fa smo'e vska'aka" or "la fa smo'e li fi vska'aka lu gnmukaki re mneku ftc/jtne". But it's so much easier just to have two versions of f.If you mean the difference between "I see someone in the room" and "I see that someone is in the room", then I would do those as: sa je prna le kmfe zvtake vska'aka Some A/[person(A)& E/room(E): at(A,E)]: see(me,A) la fa se prne li kmfi zvteki vska'aka A/[Situation A in which: some E/person(E): I/room(I): at(E,I)]: see(me,A) But I don't see that this has much to do with non-factual worlds. If you mean some other contrast, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
For "X knows Y to be the case", and other factive predicates, Y occurs in the same world as the knowing. For "X believes Y to be the case", Y does not necessarily occur in the same world as the believing. Perception verb complements can have either interpretation: "She saw a tiger approaching through the long grass" -- on one reading, there's a tiger approaching through the long grass, and she see this happening; on another reading, she's hallucinating, or maybe it's not a tiger but just a largeish cat. For know/believe you could argue that the predicate specifies whether or not its own event argument is necessarily in the same world as its x2; but you wouldn't want to say that for perception verbs, unless for every perception verb you had two versions, the knowy version and the believey version. Lojban had that characteristically clouded but not vacuous idea about li'i and the amputee's experience of having a foot, where I suppose that at one time the complement of li'i was the believey sort, whereas the x2 of lifri was the knowy sort. ma'a ndi