Re: [engelang] Xorban Development - engelang messages

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:05 PM, And Rosta <and.rosta@hidden.email> wrote:

Mike S., On 31/08/2012 02:48:

> Did you and And decide on a way to say "but"?

No.

My sense is that it should be an illocutionary, and that there should be a way to make illocutionaries out of predicates, because an open class of illocutionaries is needed.

Well, I say illocutionary, but strictly speaking "but" is not performing an action (as illocutionaries do); rather it is expressing contrast, but outside the scope of any illocutionary. E.g. "He is poor but happy" means "I-state he is poor and happy; poverty and happiness contrast".

Probably we need something like this:

XX = unary discourse markers, outside scope of illocutionary:
XX includes a contrast-marking particle

"he is poor but happy"
"contrast and poor happy"

C-V = binary discourse marker, where V binds variable in first formula and first formula ascribes property (e.g. of being mindblowing) to second formula.

> I haven't been following all the CV'V stuff. Now that "nu" has been created, I was wondering how that would work with 'but':
>
> je klma'a nu klme'e
> I am going and you are or are not going.
> =I'm going and maybe you too.
>
> j[but] klma'a nu klme'e
> =I'm going but you may be not going.
> =I'm going but maybe you not.
>
> je nu klme'e klma'a
> You are or are not going and I am going.
> You may be going, and I am going. -- not sure if this sounds right.
>
> j[but] nu klme'e klma'a
> You may be not going, but I am.
>
> Any ideas on that? Has that been covered?

I think "nu" does not mean "maybe".

I need reminding what the point of the truth and tautology operators is....

They seem to have illocutionary force, but I am not sure, which is why I invoked your name. Yesterday I used "ni" in examples, translating it as "indeed", which to me is roughly the effect of saying "it is the case that". I think that's fine and useful, assuming that usage is acceptable. Maybe {na ni} could be the polar opposite.

"nu" means {{ni} xor {na}} if it were possible to coordinate operators = "either it is the case, or it is not the case, that...". Maybe "may" is not the best translation for that, but it's a rough approximation in colloquial English. I was trying to capture the feel of it in English.

In a nutshell, the question I am asking is, though, how do you say "but" and how does it work with "nu".