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Nick the Weasel asserts that while du'u is not factive ("it [must] have a predicate and arguments, [no more]"), nu is factive ("what it describes truly happens in the world"). I have (consistently, I think) asserted both within and outwith CLL that the latter is untrue. The event of Nixon being elected President in '68 is no more and no less an event than the event of McGovern being elected etc., even though the former cu fasnu and the latter, on the contrary, na fasnu. (Digression: Although "on the contrary" is now firmly lexicalized, it was once an application of Aristotelian logic: "Nixon elected" and "McGovern elected" are Aristotelian contraries, as they cannot both be true.) It is in fact proper that notions like "truly happens in the world" be expressed in Lojban with full predicates rather than implicitly by grammatical machinery: Use The Brivla, Luke. -- If you have ever wondered if you are in hell, John Cowan it has been said, then you are on a well-traveled http://www.ccil.org/~cowan road of spiritual inquiry. If you are absolutely http://www.reutershealth.com sure you are in hell, however, then you must be jcowan@hidden.email on the Cross Bronx Expressway. --Alan Feur, NYTimes, 2002-09-20