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jordan: > > > > The two candidate meanings for ni are: > > > > > > > > 1. du'u se la'u ma kau > > > > 2. du da poi se la'u ke'a = jai se la'u > > > > or: jai se la'u jei > > > > > > leni broda kei ko'a == le se klani befi ko'a beife lesu'u broda > > > > > > le jei broda == le ni broda kei be lesi'o jetnu == le se klani > > > be fi lesi'o jetnu beife lesu'u broda > > > > > > Where su'u may or may not be ka, depending on the definition of > > > klani > > > > So basically you go for some version of (2) > > #2 has a "jei" in the description of "ni"; I don't see how this can > possibly work without it being a circular definition, if we are to > define "jei" in terms of ni > > So... maybe The point wasn't to define ni in terms of jei or vice versa but simply to disambiguate the two incompatible senses of ni -- viz "to what extent" and "the extent to which". > > > > I think xod and I are of the opinion that ni1 and xukau and ni2 and > > > > jei categorize the same scale -- the degree to which something is > > > > the case -- but that ni1/ni2 and xukau/jei categorize it in different > > > > ways. The idea is that two states of affairs can be the case to > > > > different degrees yet both be true or both be false, so they have > > > > different ni values but the same jei/xukau values. My apologies to > > > > xod if I misrepresent him here > > > > > > In many cases ni has nothing to do with the extent to which something > > > is the case (unless i'm misreading what you mean by that---to me > > > that means "how true" it is) > > > > Yes. I and I think xod think ni = how true. A larger quantity > > makes for truer and a smaller for less true > > "ni" usually has nothing to do with truth, imho. It can, though, > by using x2. Truth is better represented by "jei" to avoid having > to specify the x2 You're right, but I can't think of any scale to measure bridi by, other than the scale of how much the world would have to change for their truth value to switch. In a sense, then, I see x2 of ni as unnecessary, since I can think of only one plausible value for zo'e (as x2 of ni). --And.