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| In a message dated 10/6/2002 3:39:53 PM Central Daylight Time, jjllambias@hidden.email writes: << The "free floating" {da} is {su'o da}. I take {su'o} to be importing, of course. It is {ro} that I take to be non-importing. >> I though you had -- given what you have said the last few times -- gone over wholly to non-importing quantifiers. So, OK, if you let in enough importing quantitiers you can get by with a few non-importing ones, if you want them. It will be harder to justify all the standard inferences in this case (since you have to stick on an impoarting clause to each use of the non-importing quantifiers -- unless you choose them well). << > The inelegance of importing for me comes from not being able to > infer {ro broda cu brode} = {no broda naku brode} = > {naku su'o broda naku brode} = {naku me'iro broda cu brode}. > >> > Explain to me again why these don't go through just fine? Because {ro broda cu brode} is not {naku su'o broda naku brode} for importing {ro} and {su'o}. >> And so? When do you want to say this and why? The only use I can think of for it is as a step in a proof and all the cases where I would need that step that I can think of off hand are covered in other ways more directly. It is the effect of quantiifer DeMorgan, not the details step by step that are needed. << This is how I assume you would have it: ro broda cu brode = ge su'o de broda gi ro da zo'u ganai da broda gi da brode no broda cu brode = no da zo'u ge da broda gi da brode su'o broda cu brode = su'o da zo'u ge da broda gi da brode me'iro broda cu brode = ge su'o de broda gi me'iro da zo'u ganai da broda gi da brode >> No, since I would take (history again) all the broda forms as primitive and the ones in terms of {da} as short for {Q zasti zo'u ... zy ...}. Lojban is trying to be a human language, not a logical formulary, after all. << The four relationships work for my system, but not for yours. Any of the two systems can be derived from the other when needed, so I don't see where the screw up is. >> The laws of the square work in my system by not yours, and from them I can get all the useful principles out -- and even the not so useful ones, if I want to go over to other expressions where they are applicable. |