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Re: [engelang] Re: Engelang phonology chat

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:34 PM, And Rosta <and.rosta@hidden.email> wrote: 

Mike S., On 28/08/2012 00:21:

> /a e i o u @ 1/ - similar to Lojban, except that Lojban does not
> define [1] for its seventh vowel, even though that's plainly the only
> practical choice for a seventh given the sanctioned allophonic ranges
> of the other six.

For that reason I use [y] for the buffer vowel, which is ridiculous, but still the best way of coping with idiotic design. I pronounce _zbasu_ as [zybasu].

That'd be a good choice if Lojban rules didn't declare [y] declare a variant of /i/.  Rounding is defined as nondistinctive in Lojban, so I believe that /1/ and its rounded variant are the only choices enjoying a significant chunk of vowel space.

 
> I decided to make the sixth vowel /9/ (with the allophone [@] allowed
> in unstressed syllables due to its frequency). /y/ is the seventh
> vowel, which sees more use in Tikybau than in Lojban. My reasoning is
> this: if people can pronounced /a e i o u/ with rounded back vowels
> and unrounded front vowels, with a little practice, people can
> pronounce /y 9/ too, and therefore that's probably the best choice if
> you want seven vowels.

We think alike! Perhaps I go one step further in thinking that given that, for concision's sake, one wants the maximum number of vowels that are able to generally remain distinct, this 7-vowel system is the optimum one.

Tikybau also:

Changes spellings <c x> to <x h>.  Vowels <w> = /y/, and <y> = /9/; the use of <w y> here is a little unfortunate, but <y> seems best where it is. <c q> are unused.

Replaces the voiceless glide represented by the apostrophe with the semivowel forms of /i/ or /u/ or with zero as needed.

Replaces the pause "phoneme" with the glottal stop, if that's not already what it is, and spells it with the apostrophe instead of the period, making all phonemes audible ones.*

Drops the comma, however that was meant to work.

Tightens phonotactics at bit by requiring nasal+obstruent to be homorganic (m with p b, n with all else), and making a few other tweaks.

Drops syllabic consonants, but sanctions the sequences /yn ym yr yr/ not in _V position to be pronounced the same way in unstressed syllables.

Disallows /ii/ and /uu/;  AFAIK this affects only <.ii .uu> which become <'iai 'uau>

Allows /ai ei oi au eu ou/ which can be pronounced as diphthongs [aj Ej Oj aw Ew Ow] or as [aji Eji Oji awu Ewu Owu].  In _V position,  /i u/ can be pronounced [j w] or [ij uw].  Discourages but does not forbid sequences like /vua djia/; [ij] should be used to avoid affricatizating/palatalizing coronals.  No vowel may appear adjacent to /y/=<w> and only /i9 w9/=<iy uy> is allowed wrt /9/=<y>

*As whimsical as the Lojban pause "phoneme" might seem, it was upstaged: recent Loglan versions apparently have contrastingly long and short "pause phonemes".  This would literally make the act of not speaking the only "phonemes" in that language carrying the feature of quantity.  To this idea, what can one say?  Maybe the designers should introduce the _overlong_ "pause phoneme" too.  They can use that "sound" to form a new attitudinal, and assign it the meaning "I am an ___".