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On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Jorge Llambías wrote:
>
> la xod cusku di'e
>
> > > I think you and I agree. We just have different ideas about
> > > which of the two situations is more basic/frequent.
> >
> > Is this my western culture bias? I find it hard to consider constituent
> > individuals as less basic than the groups they can form at times.
>
> That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it is more common, when
> talking about a group, to talk about properties that the group has
> as a whole than about properties that all the members share. It is
> more basic because it is logically simpler: in one case you are talking
> about a single instance of the relationship, in the other case about as
> many instances of the relationship as there are members.
>
> > > Hopefully we both agree that {le pa broda} and {lei pa broda} are
> > > equivalent ways of refering to an individual, given that a single
> > > individual taken "one at a time" is equivalent to a single individual
> > > taken "together".
> >
> > Except I think the latter form is at best unhelpful and misleading (Grice.
> > Grice.),
>
> But both are Griceanly inadequate to the same extent, in that one insists
> about emergence and the other insists about distributivity when neither
> concept applies.
I think you mean that if I say "the group walks" I have a fudge factor
that can withstand a couple of kids being carried, but if I use the
individual gadri, then each and every person had better be walking, or I'm
a liar.
I would rather encode that fudge factor in the enumeration, if possible,
instead of in the notion of a collective.
>
> > and at worst an interesting koan like zi'o crino -- given that I
> > think loi'a should be used to draw the reader's attention to emergent
> > properties, and no properties emerge from a collective with only one
> > member.
>
> And no property is distributable among one member either.
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
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