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On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, And Rosta wrote:
> Jordan:
> > On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 03:28:11PM -0600, Jordan DeLong wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 08:43:04AM -0500, John Cowan wrote:
> > > > Nick the Weasel asserts that while du'u is not factive ("it [must] have a
> > > > predicate and arguments, [no more]"), nu is factive ("what it describes
> > > > truly happens in the world")
> > > >
> > > > I have (consistently, I think) asserted both within and outwith CLL that
> > > > the latter is untrue. The event of Nixon being elected President in '68
> > > > is no more and no less an event than the event of McGovern being
> > elected etc.,
> > > > even though the former cu fasnu and the latter, on the contrary, na fasnu
> > > > (Digression: Although "on the contrary" is now firmly lexicalized, it was
> > > > once an application of Aristotelian logic: "Nixon elected" and "McGovern
> > > > elected" are Aristotelian contraries, as they cannot both be true.)
> > > >
> > > > It is in fact proper that notions like "truly happens in the
> > world" be expressed
> > > > in Lojban with full predicates rather than implicitly by grammatical
> > > > machinery: Use The Brivla, Luke
> > >
> > > Um. "ka'e" and "ca'a"? Those are elliptical by default anyway---so
> > > nixon is a ca'a nu and mcgovern is a ka'e nu
> >
> > To elaborate, this means both of them fasnu also. But Mcgovern na
> > ca'a fasnu
>
> Adam also pushed this line, as did I at one time, and even John
> took it, for everything except nu.
>
> But last time it came up, the general view seemed to be that ka'e
> covers not all imaginable worlds but only worlds that are somehow
> potential alternatives to this one. That is, ka'e is taken to
> be equivalent to su'omu'ei, and {su'omu'ei broda} means something
> like "in some relevant worlds that are variants of this world but
> in which zo'e is the case, broda".
>
> So actually, yes McGovern was a ka'e, but Sherlock Holmes isn't
> and not all johannine nu are ka'e fasnu.
No good! There is only one reality, all others are (equally) unreal.
President McGovern, Irish Socrates, and the one where I drank hot
chocolate last night are all equally false. The Verification Principle
shows this.
--
// if (!terrorist)
// ignore ();
// else
collect_data ();