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Jordan:
> On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 03:28:11PM -0600, Jordan DeLong wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 08:43:04AM -0500, John Cowan wrote:
> > > Nick the Weasel asserts that while du'u is not factive ("it [must] have a
> > > predicate and arguments, [no more]"), nu is factive ("what it describes
> > > truly happens in the world")
> > >
> > > I have (consistently, I think) asserted both within and outwith CLL that
> > > the latter is untrue. The event of Nixon being elected President in '68
> > > is no more and no less an event than the event of McGovern being
> elected etc.,
> > > even though the former cu fasnu and the latter, on the contrary, na fasnu
> > > (Digression: Although "on the contrary" is now firmly lexicalized, it was
> > > once an application of Aristotelian logic: "Nixon elected" and "McGovern
> > > elected" are Aristotelian contraries, as they cannot both be true.)
> > >
> > > It is in fact proper that notions like "truly happens in the
> world" be expressed
> > > in Lojban with full predicates rather than implicitly by grammatical
> > > machinery: Use The Brivla, Luke
> >
> > Um. "ka'e" and "ca'a"? Those are elliptical by default anyway---so
> > nixon is a ca'a nu and mcgovern is a ka'e nu
>
> To elaborate, this means both of them fasnu also. But Mcgovern na
> ca'a fasnu
Adam also pushed this line, as did I at one time, and even John
took it, for everything except nu.
But last time it came up, the general view seemed to be that ka'e
covers not all imaginable worlds but only worlds that are somehow
potential alternatives to this one. That is, ka'e is taken to
be equivalent to su'omu'ei, and {su'omu'ei broda} means something
like "in some relevant worlds that are variants of this world but
in which zo'e is the case, broda".
So actually, yes McGovern was a ka'e, but Sherlock Holmes isn't
and not all johannine nu are ka'e fasnu.
--And.