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And Rosta scripsit: > In another message I'm sending out, I suggest that a lojbanmass > is "substance or collective", which makes sense of CLL, I think. I agree 100%, provided you also accept the corresponding def. of "lojbanindividual", which is "natural individual or portion of substance" (and I think this is in fact uncontroversial). On my view, it's selbri-specific (and some selbri may be vague on this point) whether "lo broda" means "a broda" and "loi broda" means "brodas collectively", or "lo broda" means "a portion of broda" and "loi broda" means "the broda substance". (I am neglecting quantifiers here.) -- Even a refrigerator can conform to the XML John Cowan Infoset, as long as it has a door sticker jcowan@hidden.email saying "No information items inside". http://www.reutershealth.com --Eve Maler http://www.ccil.org/~cowan