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Re: [jboske] mei, latest cause celebre



The Lojban way is that, though you can leave anything you want to pragmatics, you must always be able to disambiguate with an explicit paraphrase. This ability is the major selling point of Lojban for a lot of Lojbanists, possibly the majority. (Sapir-Whorf stuff be damned.)

Right now, you have no way using Lojbanmasses of disambiguating between distributed and collective readings, for the simple reason that, though lo is +distributed, loi is not -distributed, but unmarked as to distributivity.

So the lack of a -distributed gadri gets in the way of Lojban design goals. In fact, that there are *no* Lojban means of disambuguating a reading as being collective. {gunma}? Lojbanmass, not collective. {mei}? Ditto. {jo'u}? If Jordan has his way, ditto. Yeah, pragmatics tells you that {lei nanmu} is collective not distributive. But there is *no* disambiguation in Lojban whatever right now, using explicit words rather than pragmatics. None. Including {nanmu remei}, which is still a lojbanmass. And {jo'u} isn't enough -- not if you're talking about a million man march, as distinct from a million people going to DC at some stage in the year (lo), or the NAACP leadership, on behalf of its million man membership, going to DC (piano carrier supervisors).

*This* is what is broken.

As to Jordan's syllogism, this depends on where time and place are introduced:

su'o da poi temci ku'o
su'o de poi diklo zo'u:
	naku la djan. jo'u la djeimez. bevri ca da vi de
su'o da poi temci ku'o
su'o de poi diklo zo'u:
	naku piro lu'o la djan. ce la djeimez. bevri ca da vi de
su'o da poi temci ku'o
su'o de poi diklo zo'u:
	pisu'o lu'o la djan. ce la djeimez. naku bevri ca da vi de
which is false.

su'o da poi temci ku'o
su'o de poi diklo zo'u:
	ca da vi de naku la djan. jo'u la djeimez. bevri
su'o da poi temci ku'o
su'o de poi diklo zo'u:
	ca da vi de naku piro lu'o la djan. ce la djeimez. bevri
su'o da poi temci ku'o
su'o de poi diklo zo'u:
	ca da vi de pisu'o lu'o la djan. ce la djeimez. naku bevri
which is true.


--
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* Dr Nick Nicholas,  French & Italian Studies       nickn@hidden.email *
  University of Melbourne, Australia             http://www.opoudjis.net
*    "Eschewing obfuscatory verbosity of locutional rendering, the       *
  circumscriptional appelations are excised." --- W. Mann & S. Thompson,
* _Rhetorical Structure Theory: A Theory of Text Organisation_, 1987.    *
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