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On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Jordan DeLong wrote: > On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 01:38:27PM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, John Cowan wrote: > > > Invent Yourself scripsit: > > > > Let's start at the beginning again. What is conceptually wrong with mi > > > > nitcu le mikce? xu le mikce cu frica ko'a poi ka ce'u mikce kei be ke'a > > > > > > Because le is +specific, so if I am lying semi-conscious on the street > > > moaning "mi nitcu le mikce", I have to wake you up to ask which doctor > > > you mean. > > > > OK. So the idea behind "mi nitcu ko'a poi ka ce'u mikce kei be ke'a"[1] is > > simply to remove the specificity and say that I could use ANY doctor out > > there. > > No one is suggesting the above. They are suggesting "mi nitcu leka > ce'u mikce". If you reduce the lambda, and since there's only one > of any du'u, you're saying "mi nitcu ledu'u mikce". What!? If my above phrase becomes "le du'u mikce", then something's wrong somewhere. > > And why again can't I say mi nitcu lo mikce? > > Because this does not claim you need any doctor and that any doctor > will do. It says "there is some doctor out there that I need". "There are one or more doctors that I need", eh? And why is this wrong? It's safe to assert that doctors exist, isn't it? And the one or more can apply to all/any of the doctors, yes? > > [1] I use the wacky formulation because I don't need doctorhood -- that > > would I'm asking for acceptance to med school -- I need a thing that > > exhibits the doctor quality. > > Maybe you had meant something more like "mi nitcu leka ckaji leka > mikce" then? nitcu le ckaji be le ka ce'u mikce > Anyway I think either work; it's a grokked-thing > whether or not you want to *become* a doctor, or if you just need > anything for which \x: doctor(x) is true. > > Actually I take that back. If you need to become a doctor, you > should say > mi nitcu co binxo leka mikce Yes, this is more clear. But if le ka li'o is doctorhood, and that's what you ask for, then that's what you want. It's only the same level of obnoxious precision we're applying to the rest of this discussion. If you want to fall back on naturalism and grok, we all know that "mi nitcu le mikce" is perfectly understandable, especially by a person who appears in pain. -- // if (!terrorist) // ignore (); // else collect_data ();