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On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Jordan DeLong wrote: > On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 07:09:59PM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote: > > On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Jordan DeLong wrote: > > > On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 09:27:43PM -0000, And Rosta wrote: > > > > Jordan: > > > > > On Sun, Dec 15, 2002 at 02:27:56PM -0000, And Rosta wrote: > > > > > > Jordan: > > > [...] > > > > > > > I disagree. o-gadri are out, regardless of the membership of lo'i > > > > > > > stedu be mi, because I am talking about a specific thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Certainly if you intend to refer to a +specific thing, i.e. something > > > > > > involving le'i, then o-gadri are out. But one can speak of someone's > > > > > > head without referring to it > > > > > > > > > > We're talking about refering to it. One ought not to make claims > > > > > about their head without refering to it. Claims without refering > > > > > to it should be limited to claims of its existence > > > > > > > > I think we need to concretize which expressions we agree count as > > > > referring, and which are permissible in talking about someone's head. > > > > > > > > As things stand, I cannot see why one ought not to make claims about > > > > someone's head without using a +specific or LA gadri or ko'a-series > > > > KOhA, which is how I would tend to interpret the term 'referring > > > > expression'. > > > > > > Because stuff like > > > lo stedu be mi cu cmalymau lo'e plini > > > suggests I have multiple heads. > > > > > > Not to me. These words have meanings, they are not arbitrary algebraic > > symbols. If a human being mentions his head, I will assume that he's > > discussing his one and only head. Only the worst, uncooperative > [...] > > Well; let's take english, where there's a *right* answer which is > (at least moreso) undeniable. If I say > A head of mine is small. > or > One of my heads is small. > it suggests that I have more than one head. This shows that > regardless of what is true on the issue of le vs lo, your argument > that "The fact that we're talking about human heads makes it always > +specific" is bogus. I don't buy your argument from English because "a head" and "my head" and "the head" all have the same veridicality. I agree that "one of my heads" does imply I have more than one, in English, but I can't agree with you that "lo broda" should never be used for cases where only one broda exists. -- jipno se kerlo re mei re mei degji kakne