[YG Conlang Archives] > [jboske group] > messages [Date Index] [Thread Index] >
la nitcion cusku di'e
lo'e'au cinfo =
lo'ei fadni be lo'i cinfo
So: lo'ei generates an intension out of all lions.
lo'e'au (and I content, lo'e) generates an intension not out of all
lions, but out of all typical lions.
Typical as to what? As to the trait under discussion, whatever is
being predicated of lo'e'au cinfo
This would mean:
lo'e'au cinfo cu xabju le friko
= lo'ei fadni be le ka ce'u xabju makau kei bei lo'i cinfo
cu xabju le friko
The ordinary in where they live, among lions, lives in Africa.
In general:
lo'e'au broda cu brode ko'a ko'e ko'i
= lo'ei fadni be le ka ce'u brode makau makau makau kei
bei lo'i broda cu brode ko'a ko'e ko'i
When there is only one value to "average out", as in the case
of "Africa", this may be workable. When there are several
values, it might be more difficult.
Considering the case of {nelci}, we would have:
mi nelci lo'e'au cakla
= mi nelci lo'ei fadni be le ka makau nelci ce'u kei
bei lo'i cakla
i.e. "the typical in who likes them, among chocolates, is
liked by me". This sounds completely wrong for "I like
chocolate". Examining all chocolates will not result in
{mi} being selected as a result, the way Africa was selected
when we examined all lions.
That's one. Two, the notion of typicality is not limited to numerical supremacy. A claim is typical if most representative of germane classes of the entity in question display it. Say there are 10 flavours of chocolate. I like chocolate, not just if I would like 80% of all chocolates in the world if presented with them. (Presentation is of course the problematic 'satisfying' referred to above.) Rather, that is a generic claim if I like instances from most classes of chocolate.
But in the case of lions, we didn't look at the things that Africa hosts to decide whether it hosted lions. We looked at the places lions live. In the case of the chocolates, we should not examine my preferences. We should examine the chocolates and who their likers are, shouldn't we? This suggests that chocolate being liked by me has little to do with lions living in Africa. [...]
Now. What does it mean to satisfy an intension, and generate the corresponding extension? Since extensions are real, and intensions are, uh, less real, we need to be able to do this. pc said that "if presented with a given chocolate, I will like it." And says "if presented with a given lion, I will tame it".
But not, presumably, "if Africa is presented with a given lion, it lives there".
I will add that for Jorge to speak of buska was a spectacularly inept move, because we have no intuitions about buska --- it's not Lojban, after all.
Come on. It's just "person x1 looks for object x2". You should
have a lot more intuition about {buska} than about the highly
artificial {sisku}.
And I really cannot see how to generalise it to predicates
like {citka} and {xabju} at all.
You don't hace to generalize {buska}, {buska} is just like {citka}
and {xabju}. You have to generalize {sisku}: for the x2 of {citka},
{kaircitka} gives "x1 eats things with property x2", for x1 of
{xabju} we gave "things with property x1 live in x2".
But parting shot: xod is right.
John has been hitting men all week?
su'o da poi nanmu zo'u:
ca'o le prulamji jetfu
la djan. cu darxi da
What if none of the men was such that he was hit all week? You are claiming that at least one of them was.
Why must the men being struck have been Mr Man, typical men, or pieces of lambda calculus? This *is* an intrinsically extensional claim.
It can be made extensional, as And tried to do:
"for each time during the week, there was a man such that..."
But doing it that way is not trivial. It is not at all clear
to me that {ze'a le jeftu la djan darxi pa nanmu} means:
"at each point during the week there was one man being hit
by John" and not just "all during the week, there was one
man (the same man all durung the week) being hit by John". I'm
inclined to the second view, making {ze'a} just one duration
and not a quantification over many times that constitute one
week.
Can it be done extensionally? Yes. In a simple way? No.
{lo'ei} simplifies things enormously.
mu'o mi'e xorxes
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963