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RE: [jboske] The ugly head of ni



Xod:
> And it is ugly.
> 
> Here is a summary of my thoughts on ni, yet again, but this time because I
> was asked:
> 
> Conceived to provide a quantitative counterpart to the qualitative ka, 

Was it? How do we know this?

> it is redundant with jei 

This is what I wanted to ask about.

> and it's based on a deprecated notion of ka.

I don't see that this is correct or relevant.

> The deprecated sense of ka to which ni is bound was the miserable result
> of the conflation between the English "redness" as the property of being
> red (that's ka ce'u xunre; that which is shared by all red things) and the
> amount of redness (that's jei ko'a xunre; it is 54% red). ni was supposed
> to represent the latter sense, but that makes it redundant with jei.
> 
> Up the present, my discussion with pc on this had two outcomes: one was
> the question of whether jei ko'a xunre is actually an analog of the
> redness of ko'a. It's an interesting question but I don't see why a
> language that actually intended to be used would offer any other
> interpretation of jei. In any case it's an interpretive convention, and
> that's how I use it, and I don't know of any contrary usage.

I agree that the ni/jei distinction can be collapsed, but each degree
of ni/jei must also be associated with a property indicating whether
it counts as a true-making degree or a false-making degree. In other
(& hopefully clearer) words, the possible values of ni/jei can be
grouped into those yielding True, those yielding False and those
yielding Sorta.

But as far as I can see there's nothing ugly about ni per se. Rather,
just as the ka/du'u distinction does not exist, so it can be argued
that the ni/jei distinction can be dispensed with. We just end up
with two redundant cmavo.

--And.