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Re: [romconlang] Verner & Paternoster II



Peter Collier skrev:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Collier" <petecollier@hidden.email>
To: <romconlang@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [romconlang] past particple


--- Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@hidden.email> wrote:

 [loss of final -S (/z/), Verner's Law]

My understanding is that by the time Latin reached
Germania Verner's Law had long since ceased to be
operative, Latin -S was and remained voiceless, -S
ought to remain in a Germano-Romance which preserves
cases, rather as it did in Old French
>>
You make a good argument, but that would be a major
rewrite! Although, I am curious to see what the effect
would be...


Well, I've had a chance to have a look and a play now. If I ditch Verner my articles are beautiful, if somewhat French looking. Unfortunately though everything else falls apart. So on balance, I think while it is an OTL-anachronism for sure, I'll keep it.

I know the feeling.  And -s almost everywhere would
certainly make the melody of the lang less German-like.
(And more like what?  English?  Even the Scandinavian
languages don't use our -s possessive a lot, cheating
with various prepositions instead. Except those guys
out on that big, black island, of course...)

I'll put it down to an earlier Roman expansion coupled with a slightly later onset of Verner's law over *there*. And MOC of course ;)

As for POD I think all you need is a Roman victory in
the _saltus Teutoburgiensis_
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest>.
This would have put the Rhineland further, but not too
much further from the borderland.

As for loss of -S: well it happened in Italian,
in spite of there being a lot less lenition there,
so why not in Rhienach?

As for the onset of Verner, that was probably
almost in PIE.


Pater noschter ie lü Klu, sankte tiß zu Nüm.

Shouldn't PATER > Paßer/Passer, like
*water > Wasser?  Obviously 'sparrow'
would have to be something other than
PASSER.



/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  "C'est en vain que nos Josués littéraires crient
  à la langue de s'arrêter; les langues ni le soleil
  ne s'arrêtent plus. Le jour où elles se *fixent*,
  c'est qu'elles meurent."           (Victor Hugo)