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Verner & Paternoster II (was: past particple)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Collier" <petecollier@hidden.email> 
To: <romconlang@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [romconlang] past particple




--- Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@hidden.email> wrote:



 [loss of final -S (/z/), Verner's Law]

My understanding is that by the time Latin reached
Germania Verner's Law had long since ceased to be
operative, Latin -S was and remained voiceless, -S
ought to remain in a Germano-Romance which preserves
cases, rather as it did in Old French


You make a good argument, but that would be a major
rewrite! Although, I am curious to see what the effect
would be...
Well, I've had a chance to have a look and a play now. If I ditch Verner my articles are beautiful, if somewhat French looking. Unfortunately though everything else falls apart. So on balance, I think while it is an OTL-anachronism for sure, I'll keep it. I'll put it down to an earlier Roman expansion coupled with a slightly later onset of Verner's law over *there*. And MOC of course ;)
I've changed my def articles so thay are now based (more or less) on the later VL forms, although I 'reinstated' some vowel lengths as Rienench kept CL's long and short Vs (yeah yeah, I know... contradictory chronology). They are now a little more usuable than the CL-derived forms. Oh, and I'm back on ILLE again instead of IPSE. I just can't decide.... 

So the Paternoster draft has changed of course:


Le Paternoschter

Pater noschter ie l� Klu, sankte ti� zu N�m.
Zu Riengne vinje.
Zu Volunde tacht, seichs ie l� Klu kw�sich suffer le Zerr.
Noschter Pan te keschtie Tschurne tune nu hotte.
E� pertone nu noschter Ottiere, seichs e� nu pertonam noschter �ttendind.
E� indauche nu ne ie lie Zinftetschen, meck leibre nu te l� M�l.
Pur zu escht le Riengne, e� le Posser, e� la Kl�r hacher e� issernemint.
Amen.


And an extremely rough draft of the Strasbourg Oath:

(Old Rienench)
Pru Tisu amori ezz pru lui chrisctianu poblu ezz noster commun saluz, te kesti tiiei i abant, i quandu mihi Tio sepiindi ezz pozzer tunt, seluu kest mio trazzer, sihhuz homo cu tieriectu su trazzer tebt, uz ille me mizzim tact, ezz ab Lutiru i nulli cuore ne uatu, liei mia uolundazzi se uz nocer tiz. 

(Early Modern)
Pur l� Amer te Teo e� pur l� christtschane Poble e� noschter a zu� tue Salu�, te keschtie Tschurne teh�rbant, iequande miehe Tschu Saber e� Posser ieplu tunt, selfe jo kescht meo Trasser, seichs home kuh Tierickte s� Trasser tebt, prequi ill miehe le missim tacht, e� kuh Luter ie n�ul sul Kure ne inremelvat, lie mja Volundassi se u� nocker (nocher?) lascher ti�. 


Pete.