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--- Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@hidden.email> wrote: > As for POD I think all you need is a Roman victory > in > the _saltus Teutoburgiensis_ Have you been reading my thoughts again? > Shouldn't PATER > Pa�er/Passer, like > *water > Wasser? Obviously 'sparrow' > would have to be something other than > PASSER. According to my references the intervocalic <t> to <zz> shift didn't occur after short /a/ (no idea *why*), so I have for example /fra:ter/ > /Tra:ter/ > /trasser/, but /pater/ > /pa:ter/ (the /a/ > /a:/ ultimately arising from the open $) Latin PASSER I think might undergo /s/ > /z/ > /r/ - I can't remember what happens to geminates... scratch that, it would stay at /s/ because of the stress. Pete.