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En réponse à Mangiat <mangiat@hidden.email>:
>
> Yes. Take a look at the forms _ti te voeuret_ [tI te v9ret] 'you(sg.)
> want'
> and _vialter a voeurov_ 'you (pl.) want' [vjalter a v9ruf] (the latter
> is
> not 'standard' Lombard, ie Milanese; but the ending -ov is present also
> in
> Milanese in the impf. tense). Their history is really amazing:
>
> VL.: VOLIS > vor = vor < VOLO (1s); a clitic -et from the pronoun _te_
> was
> added: voret, probably to avoid confusion with 1s (later this 1s form
> gained
> the ending -i the same way French nowadays we'd expect -0: AMO should
> give
> _aim_ in Fr., while we have _aime_);
Actually, the French final -e is silent, and is the natural evolution of -o.
There never was an ending added to the first person. Only the -o evolved slowly
into -@ and then was lost while it never ceased to be written (in fact, it did
under the pen of some writers until it was reestablished when the orthography
was standardised, but this is purely graphical. It never marked a special
pronunciation which came back to life). French people never felt a problem that
1s and 2s became homophonous, since subjects were already mandatory by then.
later also the proclitic _te_ was
> attached in front of the root in analogy with _a_, _i_, _el_, _la_ used
> with
> 1s, 3s, 1-2-3pl. Finally _ti_ started to be used as a _moi_, _toi_ are
> used
> nowadays in French. As for _vialter a voeurov_ the ending _-ov_ dates
> back
> to a cliticized _vu_, 'you'.
>
Strange evolution. Especially the endings...
>
> Surprising, isn't it? ;-)
>
Yep! So much for the idea of language evolution being driven by the need not to
be misunderstood (even though I never really believed in that statement). There
are plenty of other factors coming in here...
> Wanna listen some Lombard? It's a muribund language (I am one of the
> very
> few 18yrs olders who actually can speak it), but a Lombard singer from
> a
> nearby village, Davide Bernasconi with his 'Van de Sfroos band' (_vann
> de
> sfros_ means 'smugglers'- a typical job on the Swiss border),
Funny, "Van de Sfroos" could be a Dutch last name :))) .
has
> reached
> the 14th position some months ago amongst the national hits: take a look
> at
> www.cauboi.it... There's also a yahoogroup in Lombard, _milanes_ (the
> trafic
> is minimal: if anyone wants to join...:-)
>
I looked at the site, and found in the "Audio" part a song ("Ventanas" I think)
which didn't sound Italian at all to me :)) . Was it Lombard? Well, it does
sound strange (especially the occasional initial [Sm] and I even heard a [x] or
[G] somewhere :))) ). There's no mutual intelligibility with standard Italian I
suppose :)) .
Christophe.
http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr
Take your life as a movie: do not let anybody else play the leading role.