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At 05:22 PM 9/13/03 -0700, you wrote:
la lojbab cusku di'e [...] > By and large, I see none of this being done. Rather, I see discussions of > proposed changes, most in a state of pre-formalization, when it states > explicitly that changes are a delta from the definition of the language > that is. Some amount of the discussion might pertain to alternate > interpretations of past usage, which might be useful in deciding what > should go into the definition, but nothing is conclusive, and nothing CAN > BE conclusive until the shepherd writes a definition page. Could you or someone write an example definition page so that we know where and how this should be done?
That is what I asked Nick to do in my long rant last month (I think). I admit to not being clear myself what he wants; he obviously expects more than a dictionary definition per the rules he set forth, because he envisions something stripped down from the definition page.
My guess is that he wants all the usage information that the shepherd gathers, the examples coined in discussion, etc. for the gamut of possible contexts that are conceived - basically everything needed for commissioners to vote. But on the other hand that much complexity renders it hard to vote on some kinds of issues: I would presume that people might like to vote on the broader outlines of the Jorge/And gadri proposal, and then worrying the details for each individual word. As Nick's rules seem to be stated, we vote on each word as defined separately, and it is an all-or-nothing vote on that word.
Of course if we define the status quo as best we can (as I wish), showing polysemy if there is more than one usage, and approve that status quo as defining what is, change proposals can presumably be written broken into subissues however necessary to resolve the issues, and we know both where we are, and what still needs to be done.
I'm not too sure how things on the twiki
are organized. I wrote definitions for the cmavo I'm shepherding, but I
don't quite know where to put them. I'm thinking of something like this:
ze'u (tag): It relates an event to its long duration.
As selbri tcita (ze'u <selbri>): the event corresponding to the selbri
has an unspecified long duration.
As sumti tcita (<selbri> ze'u <sumti>): the event corresponding to the
selbri has the long duration specified by the sumti.
As forthought connective (ze'u gi ... gi ...): the first connectand
specifies the long duration of the second.
As afterthought connective (... ize'ubo ...): the second connectand
specifies the long duration of the first.
Example: mi pu ta'e troci ze'u lo djedi be li so'o
"I've been trying for several days".
Would something like that be what you are expecting?
Ask Nick. He's the boss.I would think from what has been said, that if you have four subdefinitions, you would need four examples.
There might also need to be explanations of the semantics of compounds: ze'u pu vs pu ze'u, ze'unai if it means something. I would presume at a minimum that if a semantics discussion has come up on Lojban List or jboske, it should be mentioned in the definition page along with any resolution that has been achieved. Likewise any odd examples in usage. These are things that the shepherd presumably finds out, but I don't exactly know, since I am less than certain of what the shepherd's job is - it overlaps research, definition page writing, and "cat-herding" those who are discussing the topic.
> (Nick would probably prefer that this discussion be held on the byfy meta > forum, so I'll stop here. Please feel free to answer, but if I feel a need > to go on, I'll try switching it to there.) OK.
Well, I didn't manage it this time, having written the above before I got here and remembered that I wasn't going to reply on jboske, but I intend to copy this response to phpbb within a day or two.
lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@hidden.email Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.) Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org