[YG Conlang Archives] > [jboske group] > messages [Date Index] [Thread Index] >
la mark cusku di'e
> Instead of saying that Mr. Bird is "sometimes" carnivore and sometimes
> herbivore, sometimes male and sometimes female, it would seem to me
> that what makes for a "prototype" are exactly those characteristics
> which *are* constant across "almost all" instances of the critter. So
> Mr. Bird has no specific size (though its size is limited to between
> an inch or so and 10-odd feet), nor a gender, nor a diet, but does
> have feathers, a beak, two wings, is warm-blooded, etc.
You are talking of CLL-lo'e cipni. Mr Bird is seen every time
you see a bird, it is not just a prototype.
Using {lo'e} for CLL-lo'e and {lo'ei} for Kind-lo'e:
lo'e cipni cu se pimlu gi'e se nalci reda
lo'ei cipni na'oku se pimlu gi'e se nalci reda
Birds typically have feathers and two wings.
le mi mlatu cu terpa lo'e cipni iku'i na go'i la polis
le mi maltu cu terpa lo'ei cipni na'oku iku'i na go'i la polis
My cat is afraid of birds typically, but not of Polly.
lo'e cipni cu terpa le mi mlatu ***
lo'ei cipni cu terpa le mi mlatu
Birds are afraid of my cat.
The first group gives a typical property of birds. No problem.
The second group is iffy with lo'e, but it works because my
cat is not under the scope of "typical". So my cat fears the
typical bird.
The third group breaks down with lo'e because the typical bird
has never been anywhere near my cat, so my cat cannot be part of
any of its characteristic properties. One could perhaps say
{le mi mlatu cu se terpa lo'e cipni}, then we would be in a
situation like in the second group.
> This kind of thing will work in non-instantiated situations
> (naturally, if I "see" Mr. Bird then that could make "being seen by
> me" a characteristic, and it isn't, as has been noted). When I Want
> "a bird", then I'm wanting something warm-blooded, two-winged,
> scaly-legged, blahdiblah, but not with any particular gender, etc.
> When I see "a bird," that's an instantiation and necessarily
> enumerable; that's "lo cipni" not "lo'e cipni".
What about when you see birds often? Or when you often see birds forming
patterns in the sky as they fly? You can of course quantify, but the
complexity of the quantifier expression grows very fast. With a unique
Mr Bird things are much simpler, and we don't always need or want the
precision of the quantified expression.
mu'o mi'e xorxes
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