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Re: [jboske] The two lo'es (was: essentials of a gadri system)



xorxes:
> Dr. And Rosta:
> > xorxes:
> > > As for reassignment, in my case lo'e was assigned to Kind in 1994
> > > so restricting it to CLL-lo'e would constitute the reassignment.
> > > But I'm willing to wait and evaluate all options.
> >
> > IIUC, you use {le} for Kinds that cannot be anything but Kinds, because
> > it's shorter without being pragmatically misleading.
>
> le ka, le du'u, yes.
>
> > I am still hoping
> > for a miracle with Kind being assigned a short monosyllabic form.
>
> I think the best solution would be to assign unquantified {lo}
> to Kind. Otherwise, I prefer {lo'e} to anything in LAhE. I'm
> not so sure about a {lau} in LE: it is monosyllabic, but I'd have
> to get used to it.
>
> {lo} for Kind would not involve any drastic change in usage,
> but it would require some changes to CLL and especially in how
> we teach it.

I agree. For symmetry, {(tu'o) le} would be Kind too, with CLL {(ro) le}
becoming {ro le}. But what then are {PA loi/lei}? I find that it all
leads back to the Excellent Solutions, whereby one out of lV and lVi is
assigned to Kind and the other to Group (you & I preferred lV for Kind
and lVi gor Group), with default outer quantifier tu'o, and explicit outer
quantifer of Kind quantifying over subkinds and explicit outer quantifier
of Group quantifying over members. The o-gadri for Group is omissible when
there is overt outer quantification. Inner quantifier does cardinality,
with xod's tu'o for Substance/Stuff. Either way we get substantial
deviations from CLL, though the upside is that it requires only six gadri
(le, lei, lo, loi, la, lai).

(I think the le/lei & la/lai Kind/Group distinctions are not crucial,
which can reduce things to 4 gadri, Kind (lo), Group (loi), Specific
(Group) (le) and Named (Group) (la), but this loses the symmetry of
the phonological patterning. Or maybe if Kind were {lau}, then the
freed up forms could be used as shorthand distributives:
  Group = loi    ro loi = lo
  Spec = lei     ro lei = le
  Named = lai    ro lai = la
But I'm just thinking aloud here.)

But we already knew that we could build a decent system out of the raw
materials of Lojban gadri forms. The way we must surely proceed is to
compare rival fully-fledged systems, to see how much kludgesomeness is
required to get something sufficiently CLL-conformant.

--And.