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On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 12:51:21AM +0100, And Rosta wrote:
> Jordan:
[...]
> > The formalist
> > view requires that it be definitely proscriptive, if that's what
> > you're talking about with frozenness
> >
> > And the baseline is currently unfrozen, I remind you, but it is
> > still proscriptive
>
> Baseline = a definite specification that everybody heeds
> Frozen = baseline does not go through incremental version changes
By that definition the baseline has never been frozen.
> > > 'Whorfians' like to study exotic languages in order to discover new
> > > ways of conceptualizing things. Such novel conceptualizations can
> > > be found here and there in Lojban, too, generally arising because of
> > > Lojban's formalism and its having been created by nonlinguist nerds
> >
> > That's just their rhetoric. (If you are refering to xod's religion)
>
> Just rhetoric because it isn't borne out in practise? Maybe. Or even
> the principle is just rhetoric? I don't think so.
Well, I'm sure their principles are honestly intended. That is,
the practitioners of SWism (xod) probably aren't aware (or don't
agree) that their positions are self-contradictory.
> > In reality they're just naturalists: they support every attempt
> > to make lojban more english-like
>
> I'm a bit lost about who we're talking about here. If we're talking
> about the "I don't understand the logic, so I'm going to use Lojban
> as if it were my native English" school, then I agree. But if we're
> talking about the "Certain natural languages can express conceptually
> fundamental notions that Lojban cannot express in any practical way"
> school, then I don't see that as particularly naturalistic; it's
> merely the wish that Lojban be able to equal the expressive capabilities
> of natlangs.
[...]
Neither; the first of those is naturalism a la kreig, the second
is naturalism a la xorxes. We're talking about
http://www.lojban.org/wiki/index.php/SWism (xod's second religion;
his first was at http://www.lojban.org/wiki/index.php/transcendentalism;
both leave a bad taste in the mouth).
--
Jordan DeLong - fracture@hidden.email
lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u
sei la mark. tuen. cusku
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