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On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 01:11:31AM -0000, And Rosta wrote:
> Lojbab:
> > At 12:19 AM 1/7/03 +0000, And Rosta wrote:
> > > > >A good logical language is one that is not only logically precise but
> > > > >also concise
> > > >
> > > > Why?
> > >
> > >Because a notation that is insufficiently concise is a deterrent to
> > >using it. If it takes ages to say what you want to say, then you
> > >are more likely to choose to say something shorter than what you
> > >had wanted to say
> > >
> > >Creating a logical language is a pretty trivial undertaking, because
> > >logic notations have already been invented. The challenge is to
> > >create a more concise (and hence more usable) notation
> >
> > If logicians haven't done it, what makes you think we could?
>
> Because (i) it's blindingly obvious how to do it, (ii) I've done it
> in my own engelang, (iii) for the reasons I spelled out in my
> previous message, logicians aren't interested in concision.
But they in fact *are* interested in concision, and they have done
it. In the book I have by Quine he defines a bunch of "macro" type
things which just shorten stuff, and serve no other purpose. The
expression (A -> B) is *shorthand* for (~A v B), (A v B) is shorthand
for ~(A | B) (where '|' is the neither-nor connective), ~A is
shorthand for (A | A). So the original (A -> B) actually is just
a short version of writing (((A | A) | B) | ((A | A) | B)). In
fact his system only has 3 truly fundamental things: quantification,
neither-nor, and the membership operator---but no logician would
want to write everything in terms of those. He even gives a whole
system of little dot thingies to avoid having to write parenthesis.
This book also argues that mathmatical expressions like '3 + 2' are
simply shorthand versions of (complex) logical expressions.
So, Quine is a logician. Quine is interested in concision. Therefore
at least some logicians are interested in concision (and I would
argue most are, because basically all employ shorthands such as ~
and -> and such things).
Thus if lojban/loglan/blah is supposed to be interesting, it is
*not* (only) as Concise Logic(tm).
--
Jordan DeLong - fracture@hidden.email
lu zo'o loi censa bakni cu terzba le zaltapla poi xagrai li'u
sei la mark. tuen. cusku
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