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xod: > On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, And Rosta wrote: > > > Let me attempt to outline the key features of Collective and Substance > > I find this sort of reductive, essentialist approach easier than > > Nick's more discursive approach. Hopefully they're complementary > > > > None of the below is intended to imply a revision to the taxonomy > > of gadri types that the discussion has agreed on > > > > * The difference between broda Substance and a single individual broda > > * Intrinsic Boundaries (- can be fuzzy) = Countability > > - broda Substance lacks intrinsic boundaries = is uncountable > > - a single individual broda has intrinsic boundaries = is countable > > * divisibility: within reason, you can arbitrarily subdivide broda > > Substance and end up with broda Substance, but you can't arbitrarily > > subdivide a single individual broda and end up with a single > > individual broda > > > > * Collective > > * is a group of two or more broda (seen another way, a single individual > > broda would be a group of one broda) > > * is not Divisible: although you can divide a group into two groups, > > you can't *arbitrarily* subdivide it -- you must subdivide it at > > the boundaries between group members > > * may or may not have intrinsic boundaries (but a group of a definite > > number of members does have intrinsic boundaries) > > [Hence a MOI brivla for Collective would be compatible with both > > a Substance gadri and a non-Substance gadri.] > > Looks like us Collectivists need to get our story straight! What about the > central role of emergent properties as the defining justification for > bothering to use a collective instead of a plural? I had thought about that when I was writing it, but indeed emergent properties are central as the justification for marking collectives, but they are not the defining property of collectives themselves, and that was what I was trying to do in the message -- defining what collectives are. There probably isn't much point, though, because everybody with an interest in grasping what Collective and Substance are probably already has done so. --And.