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la and cusku di'e
> >How, then, do we talk about things that are "broda with the
> >addition of intrinsic boundaries" and "broda with the subtraction
> >of intrinsic boundaries"?
>
> For addition, nothing is needed because every broda is always
> countable in Lojban. We all agree about {re djacu} implying
> contextual boundaries. (This applies as much to distributive
> as to collective reference.)
Hang on though: this is still not a settled issue. Several of
us, including, I thought, you (in your previous message), opine
that, say, "djacu" is basically uncountable, but gets boundaries
added when used with an individuals-gadri (or perhaps more
generally a non-Substance gadri). Some where I'm at at the
moment is that some predicates lack intrinsic boundaries and
need them added when used with non-Substance gadri.
Yes. There is no disagreement about how to do distributive
countables, is there? Doesn't everybody agree that {re djacu}
is "two waters" and that it refers to two quantities of water
with contextual boundaries? (two glasses of water, two lakes,
whatever. My impression is that there is unanimity about this
part.
> For the subtraction of boundaries, we can use "Unique"
> Substance is always a subtype of Unique anyway, isn't it?
> If there is only one member, the idea of boundaries between
> members loses its meaning. So {lo'e djacu} works well for
> "water" as substance:
There is still a relevant distinction between pi ro and pi me'i
and pi su'o. And pi me'i and pi su'o can be +specific as well
as -specific. Given that, I can't see a way to avoid
Substance-gadri. Can you?
I can't see fractions of Substance making much sense. I think I see Substance just as Unique.
There is a difference between an (+/-specific) intrinsically bounded amount of water and some (+/-specific) water that is not intrinsically bounded. "I stepped in (some) water. It was muddy. Then I washed my feet with (some) water. It was clean." I see these as +specific -intrinsically-bounded. If lVi were the Substance- gadri, I'd use lei for these.
I'd use Unique there. Or just {le djacu} if +specific is
required.
mu'o mi'e xorxes
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