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On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Robert LeChevalier wrote:
> At 03:20 PM 12/19/02 +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote:
> >la djan cusku di'e
> > >If you can say "There is rice scattered over the floor", you can equally
> > >well say "There is sailor scattered over the deck", pisu'o loi blosazri.
> >
> >Yes, but hopefully with the collective meaning = "there are
> >sailors scattered over the deck" and not with the substance
> >meaning "there is sailor goo scattered over the deck".
>
> That is a question of "relevant properties". If the sailor goo scattered
> on the deck has the relevant properties of sailordom for the context, then
> all is fine. If you boil rice to a pulp and spread rice goo all over the
> floor (or grind it down to rice flour) then you risk the same problem with
> substance-rice that you do with substance-sailor.
>
> >If you divide {pa rismi} in many parts, you normally end up
> >with {so'i rismi} (assuming you started with a big enough
> >{pa rismi}. But if you divide {pa nanmu} in many parts,
> >you don't end up with {so'i nanmu}, no matter how big the
> >pa nanmu was.
>
> This is just arguing about how small you can divide the mass before it
> loses its relevant emergent properties and thereby ceases to be a mass.
But like I said before, and I think Jorge also alluded to: surf and waves
are an emergent property of water molecules, not "waters". I think you and
John are getting confused about what the actual elements are, and I think
that Jorge already posted a clear post about this.
> > In that sense, there can be said to be a
> >class of brodas such that when you divide pa broda you end
> >up with so'i broda, and other brodas for which you don't.
>
> John (and I) are arguing, I think, that this subdivision of brodas is a SW
> restriction that is not necessary.
>
> >But that's like saying that there is a class of brodas
> >such that when you melt lo broda you still have broda and
> >other brodas for which you don't.
>
> If such classes of broda exist, then membership of a particular broda in a
> class is something that can/must be asserted, and not necessarily
> assumed. Lojban supports Salvador Dali, and his flowing watches.
Yes, assert it. But not at the gadri level. And if at the gadri level,
then not with the same gadri that also means collectives, because they are
different concepts.
--
// if (!terrorist)
// ignore ();
// else
collect_data ();