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xod: > Since each of the fellows can't carry the piano alone, are we then > justified in claiming that their mass can't carry the piano either? When > there is a contradiction between the characteristics of one or every > individual, and the characteristic of the mass taken as a mass, surely the > mass characteristics are correct and the others are wrong. To make lojban > mass the union of the actual mass and the individuals is destructive, and > beyond the intention of the designers, and can't help us real jboka'e > either. It can't be defended by formalism or naturalism, but only the > understandable desire to shoehorn a solution into a hasty compromise after > an argument that's super-za'o I agree with what you've been saying about 'masses' and about Mr Bird, and I agree with the further points you make in this paragraph. --And.