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Jorge Llambias scripsit: > But everybody knows that. You don't need to know anything > about the facts of the matter in order to know that, just > some logic. The interesting thing is: "I know that someone > did it or I know that noone did it", but you can't shove > the "or" inside the subclause. This doesn't depend on kau effects, though. I know that either there is life on Jupiter or there isn't, due to the uncontroversial nature of the excluded-middle principle (at least when dealing with members of finite sets). But I do not know there is life on Jupiter, and I do not know there isn't life on Jupiter. This is not factivity, for I can replace "know" by "believe" salva veritate. -- Eric Raymond is the Margaret Mead John Cowan of the Open Source movement. jcowan@hidden.email --Lloyd A. Conway, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan amazon.com review http://www.reutershealth.com