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la and cusku di'e
> [As a matter of fact, I'm ok with the pisu'o default for
> {loi}, but I don't think {loi broda} is a singular term
> And prefers a piro default.
It depends. If I drink pi ro loi djacu, does that mean I drink all
the water there is? Or if I have a sip, am I still drinking pi ro
loi djacu?
That depends on the meaning of {pinxe}. If after {lo nu ko'a
mu'o pinxe ko'e}, ko'e is completey or mostly inside ko'a, then
having a sip of water won't be {pinxe piro loi djacu}. If
{pinxe} is like {pencu} such that touching a spot is touching
the whole, then having a sip is drinking it.
If the latter, then I do prefer a pi ro default. If the former, then I prefer no default.
I don't see why that would determine your choice of default
for {loi}. We can have two predicates "x1 drinks x2" and
"x1 drinks of x2" such that one behaves the way you want
with (piro loi djacu} and the other doesn't.
{piro loi broda cu nenri ko'a} for example requires that
the whole mass be inside of ko'a.
If I touch Nick, that does not mean I touch every bit of Nick, but I don't think we can conclude from that that reference to Nick has a default implicit pi su'o. +
Of course, that's how "touch" works. But if you eat Nick,
then usually it would mean every bit, because that's how
"eat" works. I would assume "citka" means "x1 eats x2 fully"
and not "x1 eats of x2", but both are possible predicates
to have in the language.
Similarly, {pencu} explicitly means "x1 touches x2 at locus x3".
Another predicate could be "x1 touches x2 all over", in which
case you'd have to touch every bit for it to hold.
So my view is that masses are singulars and so their default should be that there is no quantification.
I think that makes {loi} not very useful, as we rarely want to
refer to whole nonspecific masses.
I know this is anti-CLL, but where CLL gets it wrong we're put in the tricky situation of having to choose between ignoring the wrong bits of CLL or creating experimental cmavo that, in this instance, would be exactly like loi/lei but without the defaults.
My position is anti-CLL too when it comes to {lei}. It is just
by chance that I agree with CLL on {loi}'s default.
OTOH, on my view of masses as unquantified singulars, the difference between loi and loi'e would be: * loi mikce is more like "I need doctors", in that it doesn't say that the needee has the properties of a single doctor * nitcu loi mikce is weird or vacuous if there are no mikce, but nitcu loi'e mikce remains sensical if there are no mikce.
I agree with the second one, but needing the whole mass of doctors to me is a much stronger need than needing doctors. They are all needed in collaboration. You need the whole community of doctors. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail