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On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Adam Raizen wrote: > la xod. cusku di'e > > >>I've read this whole thread, and if John said something along the lines > >>of ni+ce'u is used for counting the number of objects which fulfill the > >>ce'u place, then I didn't reply because I figured I had already stated > >>my position or I didn't have a chance or I forgot. My best guess is that > >>you are referring to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jboske/message/268, > > > > > > > > > > See 273. > > Okay, but I don't see how "the amount of cruelty to Jim" amounts to > counting the number of cruel people. Yes, that's why *that* usage is better done with jei. > A single person can be more or less > cruel to Jim. Since we don't normally think of degrees of being inside a > bag, that distinction collapses (probably to jei) for 'nenri le dakli'. jei can't deal with counting the number of things in the bag unless you want to get surreal and say that 0 = empty bag, and 1 = bag contains entire universe. I never chose to do that. Therefore, jei for degrees of bridi truth, and ni for counting the # of sumti valid for the tergi'u. I feel like this is going in circles, the 3rd iteration or more now, and I'd like to see some new arguments, and ones that reflect that the writer has actually read and understood the entire thread, or I'll be reduced to simply responding with "Go read the thread!". If people can't be bothered to read the thread, I can't be bothered to search it and post exact URLs. This is not aimed at you personally, Adam. But I am realizing that the best format for this is a non-wiki web page with my views, that I can simply point people to over and over and over again. -- "In the Soviet Union, government controls industry. In the United States, industry controls government. That is the principal structural difference between the two great oligarchies of our time." -- Edward Abbey