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la and cusku di'e
Okay. But in jboske we make use of different sorts of arguments,
including:
I. "We need for there to be a way to express X"
II. "Logic and other guiding principles entail that Y must be
a property of Lojban"
III. "It is useful for there to be a convenient way to express X"
Your case for {lo'ei} appears to be of Type III -- a utilitarian
argument. Which is fair enough, but it helps if we all recognize
this.
Yes, it is basically III. There is a tinge of I as well,
we don't really have other ways to say {kalte lo'ei cinfo}
for example, unless we inroduce {kairkalte}. But I'm happy
with calling it just a convenience.
> dunda lo'e xrula = kairdunda tu'o ka ce'u xrula
> dunda lo xrula = da poi xrula zo'u kairdunda tu'o ka ce'u du da
= dunda co'e tu'o du'u dunda co'e lo xrula
If you accept that, then I think we can all rest content with
the definition of {lo'ei}.
I'm not sure what your {co'e}s are, but the main idea is to
bury any quantifier so I guess your paraphrase might work as
well.
I guess the equivalences would be: lo'ei broda cu brode = brode co'e tu'o du'u lo cmima be lo'i broda cu brode co'e le'ei broda cu brode = brode co'e tu'o du'u lo cmima be le'i broda cu brode co'e
Or closer to my terms: brode lo'ei broda = kairbroda tu'o du'u ce'u poi'i ke'a broda brode le'ei broda = kairbroda tu'o du'u ce'u voi'i ke'a broda Where voi'i : poi'i :: voi : poi
In effect the strategy is: When it is cumbersome and time-wasting
to spell out an explicit logical form, when most of that form
could be glorked from context, we can instead use a device,
{lo'ei}, that makes the logical form much vaguer and more
underspecified, but leaves the sentence much easier to say.
Yes. Easier to say and to understand. Tenses are optional in
Lojban, when it is pointless to use them, for whatever
reason, we don't use them. {lo'ei} is the way to make
quantifiers optional as well, so that when it is pointless
to use them we don't have to use them. {lo'ei} adds some
truth to the often claimed "number is optional in Lojban".
I have no problem with that. I think {lo'ei} and {le'ei} are
definitely worth having. (Not as the meanings of {lo'e} and
{le'e}, but that's a different discussion.)
I will keep using {lo'e} as I always have (since 1994!)
in my usage, but I agree to call it {lo'ei} in these
metadiscussions for the sake of clarity.
mu'o mi'e xorxes
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