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on 2/21/04 2:49 PM, HandyDad at lsulky@hidden.email wrote: > --- In ceqli@yahoogroups.com, Rex May - Baloo <rmay@m...> wrote: > --SNIP-- > >> First, attitudinals. >> >> Go froy ke zi sta ci. I'm happy that you are here. >> This isn't an attitudinal construction, though. What we need is an >> 'anti-ke' to make: >> >> Happily, you are here. The truth conditions are based on the > truth of 'you >> are here'. "happily" only shows our attitude towards that fact. > > If I think of this as "It is a happy thing that you are here", then I > can understand. It isn't necessarily me that is happy; it is the > indefinite 'it'; the same 'it' that rains or is cold, I guess. > >> Again, >> it's a separate statement, of sorts. So: >> >> Perhaps xu as that particle. >> >> Froyxu zi sta ci. Happily, you are here. >> Bontalixu, zi sta ci. Unfortunately, you are here. > > (Correction: 'Fortunately, you are here.') > > Could we achieve the same thing just by omitting a subject from the > independent clause and retaining the "ke": Yes, except that it sort of rigidizes the word order. > > "Froy ke zi sta ci." > '[It is] happy that you are here.' > > "Xur ke zi sta ci." > '[It is] certain that you are here.' > > Or assign "xu" as this indefinite 'it', so that it's exactly parallel > to the construct when a specific person has this attitude? We don't need an 'empty' it. Rule in ceqli is SVOI ( subject verb object indirect-object) but they can be peeled off from the end and put on the front: SVOI > ISVO> OISV> VOIS But only so. No SOVI, for example. Then: Bon ke zi sta ci. is VS Maybe we can solve the word-order problem thus. Co bon, zi sta ci. (What will be said next) is good, you are here zi sta ci, ce bon. You are here (What has just been said) is good. OTOH, Most of the time we want to start with the attitudinal anyway. Bon ke zi sta ci. > > "Xu bontali ke zi sta ci." > 'It is fortunate that you are here.' > "Go bontali ke zi sta ci." > 'I am fortunate that you are here.' > > ---Krawn > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- Rex F. May (Baloo) Daily cartoon at: http://www.cnsnews.com/cartoon/baloo.asp Buy my book at: http://www.kiva.net/~jonabook/book-GesundheitDummy.htm