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on 4/17/02 4:51 AM, And Rosta at arosta@hidden.email wrote: > Rex: > #how high-frequency are the Lojban cmavo? With 595, many of them have > #to be pretty low-frequency. > > To some extent their frequency is a function of their length, with > monosyllabic > cmavo preferred to disyllabic. So frequency statistics for cmavo would not > be a wholly reliable guide to their relative utility. Ah. > > On the whole I think it is preferable for word-length to reflect word > frequency > (i.e. to assign the shortest forms to be most often needed words) rather > than reflect the distinction between 'content' words and 'function' words. My feelings exactly. I'm hoping to do both with the PV(V) idea. I think Loglan really blundered when it made all preds 2 syllables, meaning that either all compounds of two preds have to be unweildly 4 syllables, or that they must have allomorphs, which of course they do. > I have done a quick run through the Lojban cmavo list to see which could > be discarded or replaced by 'content' words. Discarding the fairly obvious > stuff leaves a list of 210 items, which could be further pruned quite > drastically. > > Here is the list of 210 items: Now, this is superb. Let's say we need all of these and no others. That means there's 18 that aren't covered by PV(V), easily handled. On the other hand, my 192 figure is based on 6 P's leaving out /dZ/ and /tS/. If we add characters for those, and extend the P's to 8, we'll have 256 cmavo. > > .a A sumti or > .e A sumti and > .o A sumti iff > .u A sumti whether > ji A sumti conn ? > ba'e BAhE emphasize next > za'e BAhE nonce-word next > be BE link sumti > bei BEI link more sumti > cei CEI pro-bridi assign > be'e COI request to send > co'o COI partings > coi COI greetings > fe'o COI over and out > fi'i COI hospitality > je'e COI roger > ju'i COI attention > ke'o COI please repeat > ki'e COI thanks > mi'e COI self-introduction > mu'o COI over > nu'e COI promise > pe'u COI please > re'i COI ready to receive > ta'a COI interruption > vi'o COI wilco > doi DOI vocative marker > fa FA 1st sumti place > fai FA extra sumti place > fe FA 2nd sumti place > fi FA 3rd sumti place > fi'a FA sumti place ? > fo FA 4th sumti place > fu FA 5th sumti place > fa'o FAhO end of text > ga GA fore or > ge GA fore and > ge'i GA fore conn ? > go GA fore iff > gu GA fore whether > bu'a GOhA some selbri 1 > bu'e GOhA some selbri 2 > bu'i GOhA some selbri 3 > co'e GOhA unspecif bridi > du GOhA same identity as > go'a GOhA recent bridi > go'e GOhA penultimate bridi > go'i GOhA last bridi > go'o GOhA future bridi > go'u GOhA earlier bridi > mo GOhA bridi ? > nei GOhA current bridi > no'a GOhA next outer bridi > goi GOI pro-sumti assign > ne GOI incidental phrase > no'u GOI incidental identity > pe GOI restrictive phrase > po'u GOI restrictive identity > ce JOI in a set with > ce'o JOI in a sequence with > fa'u JOI and respectively > jo'e JOI union > jo'u JOI in common with > joi JOI in a mass with > ju'e JOI vague connective > ku'a JOI intersection > pi'u JOI cross product > da KOhA1 something 1 > de KOhA1 something 2 > di KOhA1 something 3 > da'e KOhA2 eventual utterance > da'u KOhA2 earlier utterance > de'e KOhA2 soon utterance > de'u KOhA2 recent utterance > dei KOhA2 this utterance > di'e KOhA2 next utterance > di'u KOhA2 last utterance > do'i KOhA2 unspecif utterance > do KOhA3 you > do'o KOhA3 you and others > ko KOhA3 imperative > ma'a KOhA3 we with you > mi KOhA3 me > mi'a KOhA3 we, not you > mi'o KOhA3 me and you > fo'a KOhA4 it-6 > fo'e KOhA4 it-7 > fo'i KOhA4 it-8 > fo'o KOhA4 it-9 > fo'u KOhA4 it-10 > ko'a KOhA4 it-1 > ko'e KOhA4 it-2 > ko'i KOhA4 it-3 > ko'o KOhA4 it-4 > ko'u KOhA4 it-5 > vo'a KOhA4 x1 it > vo'e KOhA4 x2 it > vo'i KOhA4 x3 it > vo'o KOhA4 x4 it > vo'u KOhA4 x5 it > ra KOhA5 recent sumti > ri KOhA5 last sumti > ru KOhA5 earlier sumti > ta KOhA6 that there > ti KOhA6 this here > tu KOhA6 that yonder > ke'a KOhA7 relativized it > ma KOhA7 sumti ? > zi'o KOhA7 nonexistent it > zo'e KOhA7 unspecif it > zu'i KOhA7 typical it > ce'u KOhA8 lambda > la LA that named > la'i LA the set of named > lai LA the mass of named > la'e LAhE the referent of > lu'a LAhE the individuals of > lu'e LAhE the symbol for > lu'i LAhE the set composed of > lu'o LAhE the mass composed of > tu'a LAhE the bridi implied by > vu'i LAhE the sequence of > le LE the described > le'e LE the stereotypical > le'i LE the set described > lei LE the mass described > lo LE the really is > lo'e LE the typical > lo'i LE the set really is > loi LE the mass really is > le'u LEhU end error quote > li LI the number > me'o LI the mex > lo'u LOhU error quote > lu LU quote > mai MAI sentence ordinal > mo'o MAI section ordinal > me ME sumti to selbri > mo'e MOhE sumti to operand > je'a NAhE scalar affirmer > na'e NAhE scalar contrary > no'e NAhE scalar midpoint not > to'e NAhE polar opposite > ni'o NIhO new topic > no'i NIhO old topic > noi NOI incidental clause > poi NOI restrictive clause > voi NOI descriptive clause > bi PA1 8 > ci PA1 3 > mu PA1 5 > no PA1 0 > pa PA1 1 > re PA1 2 > so PA1 9 > vo PA1 4 > xa PA1 6 > ze PA1 7 > dau PA2 hex digit A > fei PA2 hex digit B > gai PA2 hex digit C > jau PA2 hex digit D > rei PA2 hex digit E > vai PA2 hex digit F > ce'i PA3 percent > fi'u PA3 fraction slash > ki'o PA3 number comma > ma'u PA3 positive number > me'i PA3 less than > ni'u PA3 negative number > pi PA3 decimal point > pi'e PA3 digit separator > ra'e PA3 repeating decimal > za'u PA3 greater than > da'a PA4 all except > du'e PA4 too many > ji'i PA4 approximately > mo'a PA4 too few > rau PA4 enough > ro PA4 each > so'a PA4 almost all > so'e PA4 most so'i PA4 > many > so'o PA4 several > so'u PA4 few > su'e PA4 at most > su'o PA4 at least > ci'i PA5 infinity > ka'o PA5 imaginary i > no'o PA5 typical value > pai PA5 pi > te'o PA5 exponential e > tu'o PA5 null operand > xo PA5 number ? > ra'o RAhO pro-assign update > sa SA erase utterance > se SE 2nd conversion > te SE 3rd conversion > ve SE 4th conversion > xe SE 5th conversion > sei SEI discursive bridi > si SI erase word > su SU erase discourse > to TO start parenthesis > tu'e TUhE start text scope > tu'u TUhU end text scope > zo ZO 1-word quote > zo'u ZOhU end prenex > la'o ZOI the non-Lojban named > zoi ZOI non-Lojban quote > > --And. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > txeqli-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- >PLEASE NOTE MY NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS: rmay@hidden.email > Rex F. May (Baloo) > Daily cartoon at: http://www.cnsnews.com/cartoon/baloo.asp > Buy my book at: http://www.kiva.net/~jonabook/gdummy.htm > Language site at: http://www.geocities.com/ceqli/Uploadexp.htm >Discuss my auxiliary language at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/txeqli/