[YG Conlang Archives] > [ceqli group] > messages [Date Index] [Thread Index] >


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next]

Re: [txeqli] Re: Glosa fu/du/pa (was: Aspect)



Rob Speer wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Apr 05, 2002 at 10:14:19PM -0800, Mike Wright wrote:
> > Are the following correct?
> >
> > Cisa hon.
> > This (is a) book.
> 
> The 'sa' makes the 'ci' modify 'hon'. So I'd say that "cisa hon" means
> "this book" and "ci hon" means "this is a book".
> 
> > Does a preceding "sa" render the "t-" word unnecessary?
> >
> > Gosa zopam kiq. vx. Gosa te zopam kiq.
> > My father (is a) king.
> 
> Sounds right to me.
> 
> > Gosa zopam to kiq.
> > My father (is) the king.
> 
> This doesn't seem like the kind of situation where you can leave out
> 'bi'. That just seems to be two different noun phrases. "My father, the
> king."
> 
> What you're doing here is making 'to kiq' into another verb phrase, "is
> the king". The point of the t- words should be to make something into a
> noun.

So, we can say:

Ci hon. This (is [a/the]) book.

But not:

*Ci to hon. This (is) the book.

It hardly seems worthwhile to do away with the copula in only a very
limited set of sentences.

I begin to see that the lack of a copula in Malay is supported by its
use of head-modifier structures.

Malay:
Ini buku.
this book
This is a book.

Ini buku besar.
this book-big
This is a big book.

buku ini
book-this
this book

Buku ini besar.
book-this big
This book is big.

buku besar ini
book-big--this
this big book

Buku besar ini buku saya.
book-big--this book-me
This big book is my book.

I don't think this kind of simplicity could be maintained with
modifier-head structures in the absence of the copula.

Arabic (Classical Arabic, at least) has case endings and number, as
well as a definite article, <al->, that is used in ways that elucidate
the relationships among nouns and adjectives. Adjectives follow nouns,
but demonstratives don't.

Hadha kitaab.
this book
This is a book.

Hadha kitaab kabiir.
this book-big
This is a big book.

hadha al-kitaab
this-the-book
this book

Hadha al-kitaab kabiir.
this-the-book big.
This book is big.

kitaab kabiir
book big
big book

Al-kitaab kabiir.
The-book big.
The book is big.

al-kitaab al-kabiir
the-book--the-big
the big book

Al-kitaab al-kabiir jamiil.
the-book--the-big pretty
The big book is pretty.

-- 
Mike Wright
http://www.CoastalFog.net
____________________________________________________________
"The difference between theory and practice is that, in
 theory, there is no difference between theory and practice;
 in practice, however, there is." -- Anonymous