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Comments and links interspersed. On 2011-08-13 00:10, Adam Walker wrote:
Answers/comments interspersed. On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Pituxalina<pituxalina@hidden.email> wrote:** --- In romconlang@yahoogroups.com, "thomasruhm"<thomas@...> wrote:I like that African Romance a load. Who made it? The word 'incad' seemsto mean 'concerning'.It is an interesting word isn't it. I'll need to see if it has a home in Carrajina.> I am reading the "Folktale" again today. Did you take a look at Anchu again? Is African Romance an inspiration for you?Well, at the time I started work on Carrajina, back in 2001, I really didn't have access to much info on real life North African Vulgar Latin/Romance, but I seem to have made a few lucky choices. For one I seem to have done the right thing in choosing a "Sardinian" vowel system. There is a comment in Augustine to the effect that the folks around Carthage spoke such terrible Latin that they didn't distinguish between the long vowels and the short. I chose that path because my dictionary didn't consistantly mark vowel length. I have tried to incorporate distinctivel "African" Latin vulgarisms when I have found them.Probably _IN CATA_. Meyer-L�bke lists _ng�t@_ 'gegen'
from a place in Apulia under CATA. I read the other day that the Phoenicians in Sardinia, unlike other places, colonized the inland quite early. Thus Sard and the African Latin chastised by Augustine may actually have had a common substrate. Moreover there seems to have been some relocation of people from Africa to Sardinia and Corsica at the Arab invasion -- apparently the old ties between once Carthaginian lands survived. Actually I find it hard to believe that anybody maintained the *classical* quantity system anymore in Augustines day, but I think his statement can safely be taken to mean that there had been a general long- short merger, rather than splits and mergers among the vowels written with I E O U; perhaps also that African Latin lacked the lengthening in open stressed syllables prevailing elsewhere.
Maybe Mozarab would be useful, but I don't know how to learn it. OldSardinian and Sardolatin texts would be better available.I have looked at Mozarabic off and on, mainly to glean more Arabic loans. I haven't found any decent sources on Sardinian, old or otherwise, so if you know of something do share! I did however find a mention of a few names for herbs in Sardinian that are assumed to be loans form Punic and snatched those up immediately!
<http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=sardinian%20AND%20language%20AND%20subject%3A%22Italian%20language%20--%20Dialects%20Sardinia%22> <http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=logudorese> <http://www.archive.org/details/unaletteravolgar00solm> You may in general get better off looking for
These were documents written in 6th or 7th century North Africa. I read in one book that North African Romance might have survived as long as the 10th century. Today, it might be somewhere in between Spanish and Sardinian dialects had it survived to the present day.I'd love to have the source(s) for these bits of text and for the idea that Romance was still spoken into the 10th c. My Carrajina is somewhere between Spanish, Sardinian, Sicilian and Romanian. I say Romanian mainly because of the similar treadment of CT and QU.
Sard has LINGUA > limba, and according to Meyer-L�bke "Im Rum�nischen und Sardischen labialisiert _u_ vor _a_ vorhergehende Gutturale". He gives no examples, however. The WP page on Sardinian says that -kw- > bb. So you seem to have an uncanny sense for the right here too!
Also what would be the classical equivalent of 'incad'? I have only seen that word in that document and none others.I really like the word and neeed to find out more. Perhaps I should ask Ray. He knows everything there is to know about Latin.
Probably _IN CATA_. Meyer-L�bke lists _ng�t@_ 'gegen' from a place in Apulia under CATA. /bpj