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Re: Orthography Question



--- In romconlang@yahoogroups.com, Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...> wrote:
>
> Mark G skrev:
> > Continuing on with my series of disjointed questions:
> > 
> > One of the phonemes in my current romlang is /OE/ (open front
> > unrounded)... I know in a few Germanic languages, and possibly even
> > French, it's sometimes an allophone of /oe/, but I've discarded the
> > idea of French 'oeu' or even the more appropriate 'oau' so as to avoid
> > confusion (because the language also has a few polyphthongs), and I
> > really don't want to resort to "ö" for aesthetic reasons (or
actually,
> > *synaesthetic* reasons; "ö" simply doesn't look like /OE/ sounds to
> > me). Obviously, this is a much more common allophone than phoneme in
> > most cases, so it isn't often represented as such-- any ideas how I
> > might be able to represent in a way that's a little more original but
> > not beyond convincing?
> > 
> 
> First of all: have a look at <http://www.theiling.de/ipa/>
> for the system of ascii-transliterating IPA current on this
> list (and other offshoots of CONLANG).  It is more 
> convenient to write [\&] and [9] since the diphthongs
> [OE] and [oe] do actually occur in languages...
> 
Apologies, open front *un*rounded was completely a mistype on my
part... as for the use of /OE/, that was more purism... I'm very
familiar with SAMPA, the conlang variant included-- I'll be sure to
use it in the future if the potential for confusion is that high.

> The question how you should write /6\/ (open front rounded)
> depends quite a bit on two factors, namely how you write
> /9/ (half-open front rounded) and [2] (half-closed front
> rounded) and your position wrt digraphs/polygraphs vs.
> diacritics generally and how you use them.
> 

Part of the issue with the way I write /6\/ and /2/ is that they don't
actually appear as phonemes in this language (although /Q/ does, I
should add, and tentatively it is written Ä). I'm certainly not closed
to digraphs or diacritics, though.

> If you use <oe> for /9/ then perhaps you can use
> <eo> for /&\/.  If this clashes with a diphthong
> you may perhaps use <ëo> for the diphthong or a
> sequence of two vowels which are not a diphthong.
> 
I had played with <eo>, <ao>, and <oa>, and I haven't ruled out the
possibility of any of them-- while I mentioned not loving the idea of
making people distinguish between digraphs and diphthongs, I do, to be
objective, know several natlangs and conlangs based in and around
France seem to use both diphthongs and then also letter digraphs such
as <ou> for /u/.

> If you have nothing against diacritics
> and you use é and è similar to how they are used in
> French then you might use something like
> 
> 		Front				Back
> 		Unrounded	Rounded		Rounded
> 
> Half-closed	é		Å`		ó
> 
> Half-open	e		ö		o
> 
> Open		è		È?		ò
> 
> If you want to stay within Latin-1 you may use ö ô õ
> to get three varieties of non-closed front rounded
> vowels.  Swedish dialect spelling uses the circumflex
> as a general laxing-centralizing diacritic so that
> you get
> 
> 	â	î	ô		û	ŷ
> for	[a]	[I]	[&\] or [3\]	[8]	[Y]
> 
> versus	a	i	o		u	y
> for	[A]	[i]	[o] or [O]	[u\]	[y]
> 
> If you are on Windows I suggest you download BabelMap
> 
> <http://www.babelstone.co.uk/Software/BabelMap.html>
> 
> and some suitable Unicode fonts (look at
> 
> <http://wiki.frath.net/Help:Free_Unicode_fonts>
> 
> for links).  Browsing the Latin script ranges of
> Unicode will almost certainly turn up something
> which is to your liking.
> 
I actually have Babelmap, and my unicode fonts run the gamut of the
Latin extensions-- I suppose the question was more on orthodoxy than
simple lack of resources, though you answered both very well.

I'm actually having trouble reading most of your diacritics, though--
reading about this before, though, I'm guessing it's because I'm using
the web interface to read this message, so I'll work on correcting
this for myself before I ask about another way to see them. By your
suggestion to refer to French, though, and what little bit I can see,
I'm getting the idea thus far.

Thanks for your help!