[YG Conlang Archives] > [romconlang group] > messages [Date Index] [Thread Index] >


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next]

Re: " linguist - linguista - linguisto "



Hello,

Linguamundi
http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/linguamundi/

I recommend its archives.

Best regards,
Jacques


*

--- In romconlang@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> 
wrote:
>
> --- Jacques Dehée <jacquesdehe@...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I have no web page, but I am owner of Yahoo
> > Grupo Linguamundi,
> > open to all projects, and that collects a lot
> > of various ressources in its archives.
> 
> I can't find any mention of this group at Yahoo
> Groups. :(
> 
> > In my opinion Latin is still living, mainly in
> > romance languages.
> 
> I concur. "French" is just a name... Or, I
> suppose, merum nomen "Francisca" est...
> 
> > I think that a modern language must offer the
> > possibility
> > to be brief or long, to use "pilota" or
> > "feminine pilot",
> > "doctora" or "feminine doctor", according to
> > special circumstances.
> 
> Why "must"? If you want long, could you not say
> "doctor that is of the gender associated, not
> with football and slobbery, but rather with
> microhue sensitivity and loquacity"?
> 
> > Aviation for example and litterature need
> > different rapidities of expression.
> 
> Literature will find ways of creating satisfying
> expressions with or without the consent of the
> Language Board. Practical endeavours will find
> means of clipping and abbreviating to suit.
> 
> Greetings,
> Padraic
> 
> > Best regards, Jacques
> > 
> > *
> > 
> > --- In romconlang@yahoogroups.com, Padraic
> > Brown <elemtilas@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- Jacques Dehée <jacquesdehe@> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Bon die
> > > > Il es sexiste de derivar le nomes feminines
> > de
> > > > nomes masculine
> > > > como per exemple in esperanto "edzino" de
> > > > "edzo",
> > > > como si il es normale de ser masculine e
> > > > secondari de ser feminine.
> > > 
> > > Exactly, and I agree with this, as I've said
> > > before.
> > > 
> > > > Le objectos non sexuate al contrario son ni
> > > > feminine ni masculine.
> > > > Per exemple un "tren" non dona un "trena" e
> > un
> > > > "treno" porque
> > > > un tren es sempre neutre
> > > 
> > > OK, so your language has three grammatical
> > > genders a la Latin, but are based on nature
> > > rather than grammar.
> > > 
> > > For a planned interlanguage, at least one
> > that
> > > purports to be more than a euroclone, I would
> > > think that is a liability.
> > > 
> > > > Il es inconsequente de pretender que le
> > genere
> > > > d'un ser sexuate es sempre indiferente!
> > > 
> > > Yet, grammatically at least, this is exactly
> > how
> > > many languages (English reasonably included)
> > do
> > > it. We have natural gender, so words that
> > have
> > > distinctive masculine or feminine forms (like
> > > sister and brother) have "gender", but all
> > > others, including words for "gendered beings"
> > > like dog or child are rather neutral.
> > > 
> > > > Un empleator pote recercar in un anunce un
> > > > obrer 
> > > > (masculine o feminine, sin importantia) 
> > > > o plus precisemente un obrera (feminine)
> > pro un
> > > > labor delicate  
> > > > o ancora un obrero (masculine) pro un labor
> > de
> > > > fortia.
> > > 
> > > Sure. One could just as easily specify by
> > saying
> > > "obrer feminine" -- and still avoid the
> > confusion
> > > of distinct terminations in addition to the
> > > epicene form.
> > > 
> > > > Il pote ser utile a la politia de descovrir
> > que
> > > > un asasin recercate 
> > > > es un asasina e non un asasino.
> > > 
> > > Same comment as above: asasin feminine v.
> > asasin
> > > masculine. While the -a/-o fem/masc
> > distinction
> > > has its uses, I just don't think it such an
> > > important feature that a would-be auxlang
> > needs
> > > it. Especially one that pretends to being an
> > > improvement over Interlingua, for example (in
> > my
> > > anti-auxlang opinion, the best euroclone
> > going). 
> > > 
> > > > Il es utile a un director de zoo de
> > precisar
> > > > que il recerca 
> > > > un elefanta preferabilemente a un elefanto
> > pro
> > > > reproduction 
> > > > con un elefanto ja posedate e non un
> > elefant
> > > > sin precision.
> > > 
> > > Once again, it is "useful" but so is a second
> > > steering wheel in a car. It has its place. I
> > > don't know that much about your design
> > > prinicples, except that your language
> > purports to
> > > be a "planned interlanguage". It's just my
> > > opinion that a euroclone might favour this
> > > predisposition for -a/-o distinction while
> > any
> > > language that really aims towards a world
> > market
> > > will do best to not have the feature. I can
> > tell
> > > you as an English L1 speaker of Spanish, I
> > have
> > > troubles with -a/-o in speech. I would
> > default
> > > very naturally to "elefant masculine" rather
> > than
> > > "elefanto" if I were a zoo keeper looking for
> > a
> > > bull oliphant to mate with the resident
> > female.
> > > 
> > > Do you have a webpage that describes your
> > > language and your aims with it? I'd be
> > curious to
> > > read about more in depth.
> > > 
> > > > Cordialmente,
> > > > Jacques
> > > 
> > > Cheers,
> > > Padraic.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In romconlang@yahoogroups.com, Padraic
> > > > Brown <elemtilas@> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Jacques Dehée <jacquesdehe@> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Le sistema " linguist - linguista -
> > > > linguisto "
> > > > > > es aplicabile
> > > > > > a tote le caracteristicas humane, a
> > tote le
> > > > > > relationes parentale,
> > > > > > a tote le profesiones, a tote le
> > > > nationalitas,
> > > > > > a tote le nomes
> > > > > > de habitantes d'urbes e vilages, a tote
> > le
> > > > > > species animale sexuate,
> > > > > > dunque a centos de miles de nomes.
> > > > > 
> > > > > What are the different terminations
> > supposed
> > > > to
> > > > > mean?
> > > > > 
> > > > > In a Romance language context, obviously
> > -a
> > > > is
> > > > > the feminine singular and -o is the
> > masculine
> > > > > singular. What does the null termination
> > > > > reperesent?
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Sur iste sistema egalitare reposa le
> > futuro
> > > > del
> > > > > > linguas planificate.
> > > > > 
> > > > > A pretty bold statement -- one quite
> > suited
> > > > to a
> > > > > mere auxlang polemic. The blanket
> > statement
> > > > > misses the point entirely: a system that
> > is
> > > > based
> > > > > on the Romance languages' notion of
> > division
> > > > of
> > > > > gender and with all of the cultural and
> > > > societal
> > > > > baggage that goes with is inherently
> > > > > _non_egalitarian. An egalitarian system
> > > > either
> > > > > does away with all notions of gender
> > > > altogether,
> > > > > so that everyone is neutered in equal
> > > > measures,
> > > > > or else it completely reinvents gender
> > issues
> > > > in
> > > > > a cumbersome and unnatural way so that no
> > one
> > > > is
> > > > > able to connect the new system with the
> > old.
> > > > > 
> > > > > And the whole system above begs the
> > question
> > > > once
> > > > > again: why is it so important to
> > distinguish
> > > > > genders? What's the underlying need to
> > > > > differentiate, *especially* in a "planned
> > > > > interlanguage", between say, "la porta"
> > and
> > > > "le
> > > > > edificio"? Especially given the context
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > stem system in the Romance languages as
> > > > inherited
> > > > > from the parent and grandparent languages
> > > > (where
> > > > > they were actually still sort of
> > meaningful).
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Cordialmente, Jacques
> > > > > 
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Padraic
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios
> > > > asteros; tamenio
> > > > > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem
> > > > emduriase!
> > > > >     --Pomperios Perfurios.
> > > > > 
> > > > > --
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ill Bethisad --
> > > > > <http://www.bethisad.com>
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Come visit The World! --
> > > > > <http://www.geocities.com/hawessos/>
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios
> > asteros; tamenio
> > > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem
> > emduriase!
> > >     --Pomperios Perfurios.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > Ill Bethisad --
> > > <http://www.bethisad.com>
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Come visit The World! --
> > > <http://www.geocities.com/hawessos/>
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > .
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio
> vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase!
>     --Pomperios Perfurios.
> 
> --
> 
> Ill Bethisad --
> <http://www.bethisad.com>
> 
> 
> Come visit The World! --
> <http://www.geocities.com/hawessos/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
>