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Re: [romconlang] French R



Hi!

Benct Philip writes:
>...
> > Melroch writes:
>
> Yes, yes, I *have* to watch out which identity i use where...

I recognise you anyway! :-)

> >...
> >     {brauchen}      [bRaU)hn=]
> >     {brauch(e) ich} [bRaU)hiC]
>
> I guess the next step is devoicing of /R/ then! :-)

That'd currently sound French. (See below)

>...
> But do you have this change also word finally, e.g.
> does |doch| in isolation become [dOh]?  ...

It does not sound wrong at all, but I am not sure whether I actually
do it.  It is not at all standard and it requires colloquial speech.
I would have to pay attention to myself without paying too much
attention (that's the problem of measuring: measuring always changes
the result).  Or watch others of my native dialect (but most of the
speakers are ~500km away).

> I had the hardest time actually hearing (and reproducing) the
> distinction between [xt] _sagt_ and [ht] _satt_ in Icelandic.

I did not have any problems with pre-consonatal /h/, I think, probably
because I encountered it in Finnish before Icelandic and had already
got accustomed.  But note that [zaht] for {sagt} is not strange to me,
either.  [X] would be the normal realisation, though, or as Christian
Thalmann usually says, [x_-] or [X_+].  But Icelandic {sakt} would
contain [xt], no?

> I had problems with getting [G] as such rather than as [g] too,
>...

Me, too.

> >...
> > And German also has a whole large set of /r/-diphthongs, where it is
> > realised as [6].
>
> True.  But what does really happen to /aR/?  My hemixenolect
> has [a:] or [6:], but I suspect that is a Berlinism if not
> an outright foreignism.

Many dialects collapse [a(:)6] and [a:].  Including mine.  Comparing
my wife's pronunciation with mine, we have:

              my wife     me
   {Fahrt}    [fa:6t]     [fa:t]
   {fad}      [fa:t]      [fa:t]
   {Pfad}     [pfa:t]     [fa:t]

:-)

> ObRomlang: does /R/ devoicing ever extend to postvocalic
> phrase-final /R/ in French?

I think so, yes, at least it is perceived as a French accent when
German /r/ is pronounced [X].  (OTOH, some German dialect have
devoicing of /r/, too.  A French accent has other components than
that, too. :-))

**Henrik