[YG Conlang Archives] > [romconlang group] > messages [Date Index] [Thread Index] >


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next]

Re: Basics of New RomLang: Thoughts and Opinions, Please



--- In romconlang@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory H. Bontrager" <GregBont@e...> wrote:
> 
> I have looked at Latino sine Flexione/Interlingua recently, and I 
> can certainly understand the premise of simplifying Latin for ease 
> of learning for international use.  To many, Latin's declension 
> system is a burden, so it's usually the first to go when someone has 
> the opportunity and skill to create their own revised form of Latin.
> 
> However, I am almost frustrated that people like the creators of 
> Interlingua seem so blinded and intimidated by the complexity of 
> Latin's inflectional system that they overlook the marvelous economy 
> it brings to the language.  I think one of the best things about 
> Latin is that so much information can often be embedded in a single 
> word.

Amen to that!

> 
> So, this is my response to all those simplified-Latin conlangs that 
> have butchered the inflectional system and forsaken lingual economy 
> and expediency for the sake of dull simplicity.  It's an attempt to 
> create a happy medium between Classical Latin and Latino sine 
> Flexione.  Three main characteristics are: 1) the five declensions 
> have been melded into two easily predictable declensions, 2) the 
> genitive case has been done away with in favor of the "de" + 
> ablative construction, and 3) perfect tense stems are not nearly as 
> arbitrary as in Classical Latin.
> 
> 
> VOWEL-TERMINATION ADJECTIVE & NOUN
> DECLENSION
> 
>                Singular
> 	Masculine		Feminine		Neuter
> Nom.	bono			bona			bonu
> Acc.	bonom			bonam			bonum
> Abl.	bone			bone			bone
> Dat.	boni			boni			boni
> 
>                 Plural
> Nom.	bonoi			bonae			bonui
> Acc.	bonos			bonas			bonus
> Abl.	bonibus		        bonibus		        bonibus
> Dat.	bonis			bonis			bonis
> 
> 
> CONSONANT-TERMINATION ADJECTIVE & NOUN
> DECLENSION
> 
>                  Singular
> 	Masculine		Feminine		Neuter
> Nom.	sapient			sapient			sapient
> Acc.	sapientem		sapientem		sapientem
> Abl.	sapiente		sapiente		sapiente
> Dat.	sapienti		sapienti		sapienti
> 
>                   Plural
> Nom.	sapientes		sapientes		sapientes
> Acc.	sapienties		sapienties		sapienties
> Abl.	sapientibus		sapientibus		sapientibus
> Dat.	sapientis		sapientis		sapientis
> 
> Note : Nouns of each gender decline in the same way as adjectives do 
> in the respective gender.
> 
> ROLES OF THE CASES
> Nominative = Subject
> Accusative = Direct Object
> Ablative = Prepositional Object
> Dative = Indirect Object
> Note: Genitive usage is indicated with "de" + ablative.  Vocative 
> forms are always identical to the nominative.  The locative case is 
> replaced by use of the ablative case without an accompanying 
> preposition.

So you are privileging case over gender in the dative and ablative? Why do you favor 
locative as the default meaning of the abliative? Would it not be truer to the Latin 
predecessor to favor some form of separation as default of the ablative? (Although I do 
like the locative - it was one of the key cases in my second major conlang). Do all verbs 
take the accusative?
 
> 
> INFINITIVES
>                 Active
> 
> Present
> mostrar		viver			audir
> 
> Past
> mostrase        vivese			audise
>                 Passive
> 
> Present
> mostrari        viveri                   audiri
> 
> Past
> eser mostrato   eser viveto              eser audito
> 
> 
> VERB FORMS
> 
>                 Indicative
> 
> Present		
> mostro			vivo			audo
> mostras		        vives		        audis
> mostrat			vivet			audit
> mostramus		vivemus		        audimus
> mostrates		vivetes			audites
> mostrant		vivent			audint
> 
> Imperfect		
> mostrabam		vivebam		        audibam
> mostrabas		vivebas		        audibas
> mostrabat		vivebat			audibat
> mostrabamus		vivebamus		audibamus
> mostrabates		vivebates		audibates
> mostrabant		vivebant		audibant
> 
> Future			Future			Future
> mostrabo		vivebo			audibo
> mostrabis		vivebis			audibis
> mostrabit		vivebit			audibit
> mostrabimus		vivebimus		audibimus
> mostrabites		vivebites		audibites
> mostrabint		vivebint		audibint
> 
> Perfect	
> mostravi		vispi			audivi
> mostravisti		vispisti	        audivisti
> mostravit		vispit			audivit
> mostravimus		vispimus		audivimus
> mostraviste		vispiste		audiviste
> mostravont		vispont			audivont
> 
> Pluperfect		
> mostravam		vispam			audivam
> mostravas		vispas			audivas
> mostravat		vispat			audivat
> mostravamus		vispamus		audivamus
> mostravates		vispates		audivates
> mostravant		vispant			audivant
> 
> Future Perfect
> mostravo		vispo			audivo
> mostravis		vispis			audivis
> mostravit		vispit			audivit
> mostravimus		vispimus		audivimus
> mostravites		vispites		audivites
> mostravint		vispint			audivint
> 
>                 Subjunctive
> 
> Present Subj.		Present Subj.		Present Subj.
> mostram		        vivam			audam
> mostres		        vivas			audas
> mostret			vivat			audat
> mostremus		vivamus		        audamus
> mostretes		vivates			audates
> mostrent		vivant			audant
> 
> Imp. Subj.		Imp. Subj.		Imp. Subj.
> mostrasem		vivesem		        audisem
> mostrases		viveses			audises
> mostraset		viveset			audiset
> mostrasemus		vivesemus		audisemus
> mostrasetes		vivesetes		audisetes
> mostrasent		vivesent		audisent
> 
>                 Participles
> Present		        Past			Future
> mostrante		mostrato		mostraturo
> 
> Perfect System Stem Formation of ?ere Verbs
> Present Stem + /s/
> But?
> s + c or g = x
> s + s or z = x
> s + b or p = sp
> s + f or v = sp
> s + d or t = st
> s + h = s

Most of these make sense. But s + s or z = x? 
Surely such a combination would result in ss . Why are you using -tes instead of Classical 
Latin -tis as verbal ending?

> 
> Passive Voice Formation (Non-Perfect Tenses)
> 1st Person Sing.: -o = -or, -am = -ar
> 2nd Person Sing.: insert /ri/ immediately before final /s/
> 3rd Person Sing.: add /or/ to the end
> 1st Person Plu.: drop final /s/ and add /r/
> 2nd Person Plu.: drop final /s/ and add /ni/
> 3rd person Plu.: add /or/ to the end

1sg., 3sg., and 3pl. present appear have the same final form. Does this mean that 
pronouns are required? Or is the declension (amor, amaris, amator, amamur, amatini, 
amantor). If so, why do you favor -o- over original Latin -u-? Is there an aesthetic 
preference?


> 
> 
> Passive Voice Formation (Perfect Tenses)
> 
> Perfect
> Present Indicative tense of "eser" + Past Participle
> 
> Pluperfect
> Imperfect Indicative tense of "eser" + Past Participle
> 
> Future Perfect
> Future Indicative tense of "eser" + Past Participle
> 
> 
> I'd be very interested in feedback if anyone is willing to give it.  
> Has anything like this been done before?  If so, how does the prior 
> conlang compare with this one (in as much as has been created)?  
> What do you think of the premise?
> 
> I hope the columns of words stay aligned when I send this. I made 
> the mistake of typing this in Word without using the Tables option 
> and just copy-and-pasted it here.  If not, anyone who's interested 
> can e-mail me and I'll send them an RTF or something.

How about declining "eser" for us (or is it regular?)?
What are the allowable final consonants?
A standard text for translation is the Tower of Babel text of Genesis.

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gregory H. Bontrager