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--- In romconlang@yahoogroups.com, Adam Walker <carrajena@y...> wrote: > > --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@y...> wrote: > > > > > --- Adam Walker <carrajena@y...> wrote: > > > > > --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@y...> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- Adam Walker <carrajena@y...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > This is the only day of the year when > > > Eucharist > > > > > is > > > > > taken in the home and included as part of a > > > > > meal. > > > > > Otherwise it is a rite performed in the > > > > > churches by > > > > > the clergy and administered to the > > > faithful. > > > > > Each > > > > > family tends to have a certain Gospel which > > > is > > > > > tradition within that family to read/recite > > > > > from on this night. > > > > > > > > But doesn't a (qualified and spiritually > > > whole) > > > > priest still have to consecrate the bread in > > > > advance? Or is the father allowed to do this > > > once > > > > a year? > > > > > > > > > > You're probably right. In my church background > > > any > > > individual believer can bless the bread and > > > wine, in > > > fact, at many of the communion services I have > > > participated in each believer consecrates his > > > or her > > > own elements. I'll have to formulate a > > > Donatist > > > doctrine to resolve this question. Can the > > > father be > > > considered the priest of the household for the > > > purpose of this most holy communion? > > > > Unless they've diverged considerably from the > > Catholic-Orthodox tradition they originally came > > from, the answer would be emphatically "no". > > > > Except that the tradition under discussion only began > to emerge with Cyprian who wrote only a few years > before the split took place. His ideas weren't firmly > established in any tradition by the time the Donatists > parted ways with Rome. I'm thinking that the > independant spirit of the Berber Donatists might have > encouraged some different views from those espoused by > the thoroughly Latinized city folk like Cyprian. And > they would have Scriptural support for such > divergences, especially in I Pt. 2. > > > > > Since he will already be > > > performing some other priestly duties in simply > > > distributing the elements and reading the > > > Scripture. > > > > Some of these can be and are (*here*) delegated. > > Communion, in Catholic churches, is regularly > > distributed by specially authorised lay > > ministers. The gospel and sermons can be > > proclaimed by deacons, if authorised by the > > presiding priest. > > > > But isn't that a recent development (post Vatican II?) > in the Catholic Church? > > > > And what about a widow, would she be permited > > > as well? > > > > To say nothing of a woman, though early on I > > understand there wère female priests. > > > > Yes, and the practice wasn't stamped out completely, > even in Italy, until the early 400's, a hundred years > after the Donatists had parted ways. The last reference to the the "rebaptizati" (but only in Africa) is in AD 768. Female priests and prophetesses were common features of non-Catholic branches of Roman Christianity (and charismatic movements more generally, if Mary Eddy Baker and Emma Hale Smith are any indication) The Berber Jew who led a revolt against the earliest Muslims was Kohena (the Priestess). > > > > I think yes on both counts, but this isn't set > > > in stone yet. > > > > Wow. That was unexpected! I would have thought > > that in such an ecclesiastical tradition, only a > > priest would be able to enact a consecration. > > > > Well, the Donatist ecclesiastical tradition admits > female priests and has preserved the office of > deaconess. Virgins and widows often function in > various church offices and those married to priests or > other officers of the church frequently assist in the > duties of their husbands. > > > Even in realtively ideosyncratic Telerani > > Christianity, only the priest can consecrate > > bread for communion. > > > > Anyone ought to be able bless bread, but > > consecrating is a typically priestly function. At > > least in the Catholic, Orthodox and related > > traditions. > > > > What tradition are you coming from where > > individuals do it themselves? > > > > Charismatic. And it isn't always done that way, but > it is an option which is sometimes practiced. The original Donatists were obsessed with the purity of the apostolic succession, so I find this group approach to the consecration hard to credit. On the other hand, African tradition at the time of the traditores rquired twelve bishops for a valid ordination, so I suppose a tradition of group consecration could develop. > > > > Thank you Padraic. Your questions and comments > > > are just the thing to bring this into better > > > focus for me. Interracting with you is quite > > > fruitful. > > > > You're very welcome, and the gratitude is mutual! > > I find your descriptions of C-a very interesting > > as well as inspiring. > > > > Padraic. > > > > Thankee well. Has thou any other icunus Carnovanus to > share beside the Abgar? > > Adam > > Jin nifalud fistus todus idavi eseud adimpuudu ul isu fi aved niminchunadu pera ul Dju peu'l medju djul provedu cumvi dichid: «Iñi! Cunchepijid ed nadajid il virdjini ad junu huiju, ed cuamajuns ad si il Emanueli fi sñivigad ul Dju simu noviscu.» > > Machu 1:22-23