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--- In romconlang@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Mills" <romilly@e...> wrote: > I wrote: > >> Where do all those forms with -u- come from > >> anyway??? > >> Fr., Ital, Romanian?, Catalan > > Adam Walker wrote: > >Are you asking me? If so I don't think I understand > >the question. > > What I meant was, how did they develop historically? Latin > didn't have regular pp's in -utus. Yet Ital. regularly has > -uto for -ere verbs: devere 'must', devuto; cadere 'fall' > caduto, avere 'have', avuto, veduto 'seen' etc.; and unexpected > venire 'come' venuto. Likewise Catalan AFAIK and perhaps > Romanian; and French, though there it's always hard to tell how > "regular" they are-- venir, venu but devoir, dû (?) connaitre > connu etc. (And Provençal?) Latin had a class of verbs with principle parts like -eo:, -e:re, -ui:, -itum, and another smaller subclass like -uo:, -uere, -ui:, -u:tum. The perfect stem caused confusion between the two classes and the participle -itum (which was awkward anyway) was replaced through analogy. Jeff > > Perhaps there was a Latin pseudo-participial ~adjectival -utus, that seems > to survive in Span. barbudo 'bearded', peludo, Fr. poilu 'hairy'. But it > seems a limited usage......... Well, I'll consult Elcock and see what he > has to say.