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la maten cusku di'e
> la xorxes cusku di'u
> > The general scheme is this: each tag unit acts on (has scope over)
> > everything that follows. This includes the imaginary journey for
> > PUs: {pu pu broda} means that {le nu le nu broda cu purci cu purci}.
> > {pu ba broda} means that {le nu le nu broda cu balvi cu purci}.
> > {pu co'a broda} means that {le nu le nu broda cu cfari cu purci},
> > and {co'a pu broda} _should_ mean that {le nu le nu broda cu purci
> > cu cfari}. Every tag unit corresponds to a binary relationship, that
> > relationship is all we need to interpret them and their combinations.
>
> OK then! That's more like it! With seltcita sumti providing explicit
> x2's to these binary relationships, then?
Right.
> And giving the x2's default
> values, rather than assuming ellipsis of tenses? That's a real nice
> system, actually.
I don't think we have to give them default values. {bai broda}
is {bai zo'e broda}, it does not have a defualt value, the
value has to be glorked from context. The same should apply to
other tags.
> Would you mind explicitly explaining all this on the wiki page, unless
> it already is elsewhere? You may think it's all obvious, and seeing it
> now of course it is, but it differs (in spirit if not in implication)
> enough from CLL to need explaining. At least to those as dumb as me.
I'll try to.
> I'm not sure about your (previously incomprehensible) note on the wiki
> page about {ze'u pu}, though. Presumably we'd have, where brodrze'u
> means something like "x1 (event) has long duration x2 (default some
> interval, or subset thereof, containing the 'now')",
Not necessarily containing the 'now'. The temporal location is
independent of the event's duration. Here:
http://www.lojban.org/jbovlaste/dict/ze%27u
I propose defining {ze'u} as {fi'o barda krafamtei}, where
{krafamtei} is "x1 is the time interval going from the beginning
to the end of x2". Maybe a better lujvo can be used, but that's
the meaning we want.
> {ze'u pu broda} => {le nu le nu broda cu purci cu brodrze'u}
>
> which surely isn't what we want at all? The event of broda being in the
> (aorist) past for a long time around now? That doesn't even contain the
> idea of le nu broda lasting for a long time, never mind the extra info
> given by pu.
If the PU modifiers of ZEhA are that important, they can be kept as
special modifiers, as are the MOhI and FEhE modifiers. I think
{le nu le nu broda cu purci cu krafamtei} can be interpreted as "the
brodaing has occured in the past for a long time" which is more or
less what we want. If not, it doesn't matter, we keep [PU] as a
special mofifier of ZEhA as currently, and define a separate predicate
to go with that.
> And I can't see any predicates corresponding to the ZA cmavo which would
> work - what ones have you come up with?
http://www.lojban.org/jbovlaste/dict/za
za: fi'o temci be le fasnu bei le manri
The time that goes from the event to the reference point.
http://www.lojban.org/jbovlaste/dict/zi
zi: fi'o cmalu temci be le fasnu bei le manri
The short time that goes from the event to the reference point.
http://www.lojban.org/jbovlaste/dict/zu
zu: fi'o barda temci be le fasnu bei le manri
The long time that goes from the event to the reference point.
mu'o mi'e xorxes
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