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We seem to be agreed on how Kind can be done: by {tu'olo} and by bare {lo} glorked as {(tu'o)lo}. This agreement covers Kinds of single things and quantification over single things. So we can move on to how to cover Kinds of groups of things and quantification over groups of things and how to cover Kinds of Substance and extensional Substance. These are of course covered by XS, but by that bit of XS that is in conflict with CLL. I would hope that tu'olePA would do for specifics: tu'olere for a certain pair, and tu'oletu'o for some certain Substance. These don't seem to involve a conflict with CLL. That leaves nonspecifics. Perhaps opponents of XS can outline their preferred solutions? --And.