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A possible KS way of doing kinds. (It might be easier to skip forward to the second half of the message below the ****.) {ma'u} here means "&-ma'u" 1. Predicates that already express kinds: {ma'u du'u} = {lo(i) du'u} = {ma'u lo(i) ma'u du'u} 2a. x1 has property P = x1 is an instance/avatar of the kind embodying property P SCHEME A1: {poi'i} NU -- {poi'i ke'a broda} SCHEME A2: {poi'i} NU -- {poi'i ke'a broda} SCHEME B1: {se ka ke'a broda} SCHEME B2: {se ka ke'a broda} 2b. x1 is the full Manifestation of the kind embodying property P SCHEME A1: {ma'u (lo(i) ma'u) poi'i ke'a broda} SCHEME A2: {pi'oi} NU -- {pi'oi ke'a broda} SCHEME B1: {ma'u (lo(i) ma'u) se ka poi'i ke'a broda} SCHEME B2: {ve ka ke'a broda} 3a. x1 is a subkind of the kind embodying P SCHEME A1: {si'oi} NU -- {si'oi ke'a broda} SCHEME A2: {soi'i} NU -- {si'oi ke'a broda} SCHEME B1: {te ka ke'a broda} SCHEME B2: {te ka ke'a broda} 3b. x1 is the kind embodying property P SCHEME A1: {ma'u (lo(i) ma'u) si'oi ke'a broda} SCHEME A2: {si'oi} NU -- {si'oi ke'a broda} SCHEME B1: {ma'u (lo(i) ma'u) te ka ke'a broda} SCHEME B2: {xe ka ke'a broda} {si'oi} and {soi'i} are supposed to suggest a blend of {si'o} and {poi'i}. ***** Scheme by scheme: SCHEME A1 sumti selbri Instance LE poi'i broda poi'i broda Full Manifestation ma'u poi'i broda du ma'u poi'i broda Subkind LE si'oi broda si'oi broda Kind ma'u si'oi broda du ma'u si'oi broda SCHEME A2 sumti selbri Instance LE poi'i broda poi'i broda Full Manifestation ma'u pi'oi broda pi'oi broda Subkind LE soi'i broda soi'i broda Kind ma'u si'oi broda si'oi broda SCHEME B1 sumti selbri Instance LE se ka broda se ka broda Full Manifestation ma'u se ka broda du ma'u se ka broda Subkind LE te ka broda te ka broda Kind ma'u te ka broda du ma'u te ka broda SCHEME B2 sumti selbri Instance LE se ka broda se ka broda Full Manifestation ma'u ve ka broda ve ka broda Subkind LE te ka broda te ka broda Kind ma'u xe ka broda xe ka broda Schemes B1-B2 preserve xorxes's idea of replacing {poi'i} by {se ka}, but I actually prefer Scheme C: SCHEME C sumti selbri Instance LE se ka broda xe ka broda Full Manifestation ma'u ve ka broda ve ka broda Subkind LE te ka broda te ka broda Kind ma'u xe ka broda se ka broda There could be a general rule making SE work as a sumti- place adder like {jai BAI} -- as some sort of "to'e zo zi'o". For predicates with fewer than n sumti places, SE-n adds sumti places up to a total of n. E.g. if broda is ordinarily a one-placer, then {ve broda} turns it into a four-placer. I believe that everything here is compatible with CLL and so could be a BF proposal. Schemes B1, B2 & C add no new cmavo. --And.