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Robert LeChevalier scripsit: > I disagree. zi'o applies when there is no value that fills in the place, > not merely when it is undesirable to fill in the place, but a correct value > does exist. The latter is clearly part of zo'e and therefore not zi'o > (because they are mutually exclusive by the discussion of CLL). Not so. With zo'e, a definite value exists in the speaker's mind but is not being expressed, and "FA ma" (for some value of FA) is a reasonable question. With zi'o, a definite value may or may not exist. I declare this to be true by founder intent (maybe there should be an evidential for this). > How do you count the points of a line, which have no boundaries and no > fixed size, and you cannot see them? You define them in a way such that > their count has meaning and then try to count them. In the case of points, > you define the concept of infinitesimals, and the count is some transfinite > number (some kind of ci'i - there is more than one kind) You can't *count* the points on a line: they cannot be put in 1-1 correspondence with the natural numbers. You can assign a real number to each point, but that is not counting them, since the real numbers are themselves uncountable. -- They do not preach John Cowan that their God will rouse them jcowan@hidden.email A little before the nuts work loose. http://www.ccil.org/~cowan They do not teach http://www.reutershealth.com that His Pity allows them --Rudyard Kipling, to drop their job when they damn-well choose. "The Sons of Martha"